TargetTalk

We took my daughter's rifle to the ELEY testing facility on Good Friday, what an experience.

The following pictures are of the results. Given this information, which lot would you choose and why. Her rifle is a 1907 factory barrel in a 1912 stock which is not bedded, which is something that I should probably do.


The last string of lot 3376 (20.3), the 2nd (21.4) and 3rd (17.6) strings of lot 3381 were shot in succession and I firmly believe that the barrel got hot causing them to open. Because, after we let it cool for about 8 mins and added a small battery operated fan blowing on the barrel it shot 13.9. I wish I would have thought to ask Jeff to go back and delete those two strings and shoot two more after we let it cool some more. Bonehead mistake on my part.

The 4438 showed some promise, but it threw a flier that was out of the 10ring. Other than the flier the 40 shot group was in the low 16's.

The 5144 was probably the best overall shooting a combined 421.2 with a 19.0 avg and all in the 10ring with most of them in the 10.3 to 10.7 range.

So, with the information above give me your honest opinion on which lot you would buy and rifle. Should I look at getting it bedded or even rebarreled over the summer.

Thanks

I am sorry to say, but I would replace the barrel and test again.

At the very least, bed the rifle and hope that is improves- which it probably would.

Have you ever slugged the barrel? CAREFULLY pull a bullet from a 22 case and push it down the bore with a Cleaning rod, I am betting there is a tight spot NOT near the end of the barrel.

Those don't seem to be consistant enough groups, but just giving opinion as I have not tested at TX yet.

Good results have been reported from "firelapping" .22 barrels (I did it to my free pistol and a S&W .44 mag. with a constriction at the breech). You can check the bore with a small fishing sinker.

Simple, cheap, and easy. If you think you might rebarrel, try this first as it costs almost nothing (a box of CCI Standard and a can of valve grinding compound).

Of that bunch, it'd be the 4438, and ignore the flier, but I'd be rebarrelling that rifle ASAP, as none of it is consistent enough.

Bed and rebarrel. None of those groups are really competitive. Do not waste money buying ammo with the current set up as a new barrel may not have good results with the same lot.

As a side thought, did you check the torque on those action screws?

Ken

At least you should have bedded the barrel. New bedding will change the harmonics of the barrel. I'd go there with a new barrel, ready to replace if the old barrel is shot out.
Chris

I don't think that the bedding is an issue. I may be mistaken (I didn't check), but I believe the testing apparatus uses the barreled action without the stock. If so, it needs a new barrel.

Dennis L

1907. Old barrel. Question I would ask: was it clean? I mean clean. How did you clean it?

If I was doing this I would take "lead away" to it while watching with a bore scope to make sure all the lead in the chamber was got out. Watching is important because "lead away" is fine grinding paste. Look for a buildup of lead right at the end of the cartridge. From there to where the bullet sits - once lead is dumped there - it begins to smear along the barrel. This is the stuff that needs digging out.

If I was really concerned I would even soak the barrel in mercury for an hour or so...............

Once this is done a few toos and fros with normal cleaning soln and pads.

THEN. Go back and do the tests again.

As you do the tests - and if you have a bore scope - check the area at the end of the cartridge. After 20 or so shots you will begin to see the lead ridge being built up. Then after about 60 or 70, the ridge begins to get smeared.

I would have a look at your bottom batch as well. It looks round which is a big help to begin with.

PS - note the shot holes look exactly the same. Obviously the software has "limited" pictures to dump on the pseudo group.!!

Thank You for the replies.

Forgive my lack of information. But, yes the barreled action is attached to the testing vise by putting studs into the action screw holes and then held on by nuts. Which, would rule out a bedding issue. We torqued them to 5nm the same as we use when attached to the stock. The rifle was purchased new in December of 2010 and the round count is about 5k. I did what I thought was a thorough cleaning before the trip. During testing we ran several wet patches followed by dry patches approx every 150 shots.

mgdietrich wrote: Have you ever slugged the barrel? CAREFULLY pull a bullet from a 22 case and push it down the bore with a Cleaning rod, I am betting there is a tight spot NOT near the end of the barrel.

mgdietrich, could you elaborate a bit more on this process?
Is it valid for pistols as well (probably free pistols)?
What would you expect from a "good" barrel vs a "bad" one?
How do you get the bullet out of the casing safely and without damage?
How much force do you expect to do, to push the bullet trough the barrel?
Can lapping "solve" those tight spots?

Sorry for the number of questions but you got me intrigued...
Thanks

Go on line to search for the subject, but here's one place to look at:

http://www.neconos.com/details2.htm

and another:

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/ ... 365.0.html

A box of .22s and some fine valve grinding compound is way cheaper than a new barrel. If you screw up, you were going to buy a barrel anyway. The process couldn't be simpler.

Thanks again for the info.

>E

Thanks Rover

rmca wrote:

mgdietrich wrote: Have you ever slugged the barrel? CAREFULLY pull a bullet from a 22 case and push it down the bore with a Cleaning rod, I am betting there is a tight spot NOT near the end of the barrel.

mgdietrich, could you elaborate a bit more on this process?
Is it valid for pistols as well (probably free pistols)?
What would you expect from a "good" barrel vs a "bad" one?
How do you get the bullet out of the casing safely and without damage?
How much force do you expect to do, to push the bullet trough the barrel?
Can lapping "solve" those tight spots?

Sorry for the number of questions but you got me intrigued...
Thanks

Most barrels that shoot poorly have a choke not near the exit end of the barrel. Thus after the lead is sized down, it has to rattle around the barrel the rest of the way until it leaves the bore. Karl Kenyon many times cut barrels off at this tight spot and rechambered them making them awesome shooters. Especially with a bloop tube, who cares how long the barrel actually is.

As to removing a bullet, be VERY careful, but I just used my fingers and wiggled it back and forth until it came out of the case. I pushed the bullet down the barrel to feel where the tight spot it, it doesn't take much force once you get the bullet going.

Hi there.I would suggest that you read what Dan Lilja has to say on firelapping and other decontamination issues.While you don't have a Lilja barrel he is the Man when it comes to these issues I would venture.Check out their FAQ section on their web page.Lilja.com will get there.
I don't have any experience with the processes suggested but it wouldn't hurt to take a look at what he says.Even email them

Best of luck

How far were these targets? Just curious?

Thanks,

All this, your barrels had it, tight spots etc etc, perhaps they just didn't have any bathes at the time that suited your barrel, it happens.

I think I would try some other brands of ammo like SK and Lapua before I spent the money and time on a rebarrel. My 1712 off a shaky makeshift bench using CCI SV shot smaller groups than those at 50y. I test my ammo at 100m though and if it shoots 1" or less I am happy. But I shoot silhouette only so I am not trying to make little bug holes like BR or need super exact precision since I can't hold a rifle as steady as a vice or BR offhand anyway lol. Glad I don't to if you have to go through all this to find acceptable ammo that meets your needs.

Bo

Excuse my ignorance of the process but I have a few questions.

Is this test of Eley Red?
Is the distance 50 or 100?
Group size center to center in mm?

If this is at 50 mt, c to c in mm scrap the rifle and start over.
If this is at 100 yd most of the groups are ok some good but nothing you can win Camp Perry with.

Bedding is always a good idea. I recommend Master Class Stocks for this. If this is at 100 yd, bed it and then retest.

Eley test Tenex only, at 50m, and measure groups edge to edge.