TargetTalk

OK, so now i think i understand what that means. Like, it stops you concentrating on your sights and trigger control by sneaking your attention away from them. So how do I ensure it doesnt distract me? Anything other than the standard dry fire with it there and 'ingrain ignoring it by concentrating on sights and trigger?'

As a novice I made myself a sighting 'tool' - a piece of stick with a front sight and rear sight and a handle to grip. I then set up a target face (or just a blank bit of wall) and then just bring the 'tool' up to the sight line and just practise focusing on the front sight. (I can't own a pistol for another 5 months - hence the 'tool')

If you have a target to aim at then my coach/mentor gave me a nice 'affirmation' to practise. 'Settle...Settle....Settle....' the point being that I am concentrating on that front sight and then settling the arm/pistol unit into a steady, near motionless hold during which time increasing pressure is applied to the trigger. At this point you will note that I haven't mentioned the target. I'll worry about that later as the one thing I have realised (at least at my stage of development) the target is unimportant. If my technique is good, the the bullet is going to hit where I aim and my aim is only as good as my sight picture and arm steadiness so concentrating in the target doesn't actually help at all. ie I found that I could hold my aim near perfectly on the target bull at 10m and still not be able to hit the target....

Coming out of years in competitive archery (never could reach the elite level) I found this a big lesson to learn.

Cheers

David

in the recent post instructions for newbies, u will see a NEAR Nygord sub six hold, My hold is a ratio of 1TO1 , my sight picture is almost exactlly what they show ! I personally find the bull to be helpful and in my talks with top shooters (better than me , with alot of experience) they ALL say the same thing. I feel maybe its the beginners that have the distraction problems. perhaps only those that bring that way of thinking along with them as they improve could be affected. I will use a word I never use " sub conscious" the info in the back of your head telling u the bull is a distraction is making it one! This statement will get a few hisses (thats fine with me im used to those) I personaly have never believed in sub conscious, I do believe in muscle memory! In most cases I think the two can just about mean the same thing. SO MY OPINION IS ITS ONLY A DISTRACTION IF YOU MAKE IT ONE , CONSCIOUSLY OR SUB CONSCIOUSLY! David.

David I have spent a few years at a reasonable standard in archery too - its a different concept for sure!!

There is a certain combination of things that make the eye stick to the front sight all the easier. The lighting, rear notch width, vision aids, mental state,...I think are the main ones. You have to discover what works best to make it easier and stick to it.

That goes with most all the things about the shot. You have to learn what is needed and try to find the easiest way to do it.

higginsdj



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 31
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject:

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As a novice I made myself a sighting 'tool' - a piece of stick with a front sight and rear sight and a handle to grip. I then set up a target face (or just a blank bit of wall) and then just bring the 'tool' up to the sight line and just practise focusing on the front sight. (I can't own a pistol for another 5 months - hence the 'tool')

If you have a target to aim at then my coach/mentor gave me a nice 'affirmation' to practise. 'Settle...Settle....Settle....' the point being that I am concentrating on that front sight and then settling the arm/pistol unit into a steady, near motionless hold during which time increasing pressure is applied to the trigger. At this point you will note that I haven't mentioned the target. I'll worry about that later as the one thing I have realised (at least at my stage of development) the target is unimportant. If my technique is good, the the bullet is going to hit where I aim and my aim is only as good as my sight picture and arm steadiness so concentrating in the target doesn't actually help at all. ie I found that I could hold my aim near perfectly on the target bull at 10m and still not be able to hit the target....

Coming out of years in competitive archery (never could reach the elite level) I found this a big lesson to learn.

Cheers

An extremely mature approach for such an inexperienced shooter David. This approach will see you rise through the ranks faster than most . We all would do well to take note.

david alaways wrote:SO MY OPINION IS ITS ONLY A DISTRACTION IF YOU MAKE IT ONE , CONSCIOUSLY OR SUB CONSCIOUSLY! David.

It is a distraction, but an essential one, at the core of (almost) all target shooting. The 'trick' is to train both with and without a bull, and then switch more and more over to normal targets as competitions approach. You can also train on ordinary targets and if you find yourself looking at the target and not the foresight, then train more with blank targets for a short while.

Rob.

Several things helped me get my focus away from the bull. First was a good shooting lens that put my focus on the front sight and made the bull fuzzy. Second was adding follow through to my shot setup list. I attempt in my follow through to see that sight alignment does not change from setup through shot release to follow through.

Edster:

Couple-O-thoughts if I may

1. Please share how *you* personally made this discovery; how did this "epiphany" hit you? What were you struggling with and why did this particular realization help?

The reason why I ask is that I have *frequently* found that I can learn a lot from fellow "struggling students" of the sport and how they have learned or experienced key things. This thing you are talkming about is one of the old "5 Asterisk" type things we see over and over again in our logbooks . . . and then for some reason (inertia?) slip away from it and struggle again.

Struggle-Epiphany-Rapid Progress-Malaise-Performance Drop-Struggle-Repeat


2. This may help put it in perspective. I use the whole "figure out what the proper bhaviors/desired outcomes are/figure out individual skills or techniques/train on the narrowly focused skills/integrate into overall performance" training routine the pros use. For this cse, it would look something like this:

Desired Outcome: Easy release of the shot with perfectly aligned sights as the muzzle wobbles smoothly with minimum arc of movement, centered on the desired mean point of impact (center of aiming area).

Subelements: Perfectly aligned sights, Smooth wobble, centered, Perfect trigger

Training Tasks:
a. Perfectly aligned sights (holding the pistol in wobble area with physical and mental focus on front sight, sights perfectly aligned)
b. Smooth Wobble (gain and maintain minimum arc of movement, centered over desired wobble area)
c. Perfect Trigger (no disturbance to aligned sights as shot released)

etc.

So how do we train?

Holding sights against neutral surface->Dry firing while holding against neutral surface->Dry firing while holding against reference point

Notice how this is a "building block" approach starting with the simplest fundamentals and adding complexity only as the basics are mastered?

I coined the term "Distraction Bull" specifically so that an athlete could learn the fundamentals- in order of complexity- simple to complex.

In no other sport does the notion exist that the best way to train the athlete is by training them in match conditions exclusively- or even predominantly- hell, in most sports you will train the fundamentals even after you have achieved "Mastery."

For the life of me I can't explain why some folks (not you, but you know what I mean) find this counter-intuitive or even radical.

Maybe it's just more fun to shoot the messenger than read the message . . .

Hi Steve

Well I was fishing for you to reply so I'm glad you did! Yes it was an epiphany, and i'm trying to burn it in; unfortunately work and weddings etc etc are eating substantially into my time. After this weekend though, I can really get down to it.

1. Please share how *you* personally made this discovery; how did this "epiphany" hit you? What were you struggling with and why did this particular realization help?

Anyway : I was at a shoot at the weekend and it all went horribly wrong - about 15 points down on what I was expecting (and that was realistic, I've shot 22 points better in competition). Twitching around all over the shop, no idea what i was doing, technique completely random...

So the next night down the club i was trying to rebuild my technique, and it was still poor - better, because my 'fine motor skills' were back, but still pretty rough. So as annoyed as I was, I thought I would solely concentrate on trigger control, and the means to see that it was working was by watching the sights. I had a target down there, but wasnt taking any notice of where the target was in relation to the sight picture.

Lo and behold, 96/100. And following up with the same again, and got a 95. At which point I could feel, rather than intellectually understand, that actually perfect alignment at shot release time is key, and the bull is what distracts you from executing great technique.

So feeling good, I went to the range the next day and I could feel the ' target picture' distracting me straight away. I now have a little piece of paper on which is written 'Have Faith' because although I know it to be the way to go, my mind keeps on thinking 'no really you need to check out the position of the target'. Its like the demon on the shoulder !

But I believe if I can force that focus on to the sights / trigger, not the target, I will be able to build a technique that is more resilient to match pressure - which is a priority for me.

Holding sights against neutral surface->Dry firing while holding against neutral surface->Dry firing while holding against reference point

Notice how this is a "building block" approach starting with the simplest fundamentals and adding complexity only as the basics are mastered?

I see this as absolutely a good way to go. I guess although I have read it before a number (!) of times, I've never understood the 'why' of it. That has meant that although I have done those things, I've never had an end-goal motivation - like 'this will produce a specific result that I have experienced and relate to' - just a general conceptual agreement that it seems sensible.

In no other sport does the notion exist that the best way to train the athlete is by training them in match conditions exclusively- or even predominantly- hell, in most sports you will train the fundamentals even after you have achieved "Mastery."

mmm interesting. As far as improving fundamental technical ability, I agree entirely. I think the reason for this belief is that match conditions affect technique more severely in pistol (especially AP and free?) than many other sports. So by competing more under match conditions, we get habituated to them, and then performance improves - an indirect benefit but a benefit nonetheless. And because it has such a big impact, the indirect benefit is also quite big. My situation is that my skills are improving, but I want to perform to the same level whether I am at an open shoot, shooting postal league cards, or just 'popping away'. But performing consistently to ones potential is a whole different discussion (sort of).

As an aside, I have deliberately entered a good number of open shoots to get that habituation to them, and had a range of results - some good, some bad. But maybe I've learnt more from this bad experience that has forced me to look at my fundamentals, than the good experience where I won. My long term goal is that strong technique that works anywhere... It hurts on the way though as a bad experience can knock your confidence.

I'd be interested in your thoughts.

regds

Ed

Steve Swartz wrote:Edster:

Couple-O-thoughts if I may

1. Please share how *you* personally made this discovery; how did this "epiphany" hit you? What were you struggling with and why did this particular realization help?

The reason why I ask is that I have *frequently* found that I can learn a lot from fellow "struggling students" of the sport and how they have learned or experienced key things. This thing you are talkming about is one of the old "5 Asterisk" type things we see over and over again in our logbooks . . . and then for some reason (inertia?) slip away from it and struggle again.

Struggle-Epiphany-Rapid Progress-Malaise-Performance Drop-Struggle-Repeat


2. This may help put it in perspective. I use the whole "figure out what the proper bhaviors/desired outcomes are/figure out individual skills or techniques/train on the narrowly focused skills/integrate into overall performance" training routine the pros use. For this cse, it would look something like this:

Desired Outcome: Easy release of the shot with perfectly aligned sights as the muzzle wobbles smoothly with minimum arc of movement, centered on the desired mean point of impact (center of aiming area).

Subelements: Perfectly aligned sights, Smooth wobble, centered, Perfect trigger

Training Tasks:
a. Perfectly aligned sights (holding the pistol in wobble area with physical and mental focus on front sight, sights perfectly aligned)
b. Smooth Wobble (gain and maintain minimum arc of movement, centered over desired wobble area)
c. Perfect Trigger (no disturbance to aligned sights as shot released)

etc.

So how do we train?

Holding sights against neutral surface->Dry firing while holding against neutral surface->Dry firing while holding against reference point

Notice how this is a "building block" approach starting with the simplest fundamentals and adding complexity only as the basics are mastered?

I coined the term "Distraction Bull" specifically so that an athlete could learn the fundamentals- in order of complexity- simple to complex.

In no other sport does the notion exist that the best way to train the athlete is by training them in match conditions exclusively- or even predominantly- hell, in most sports you will train the fundamentals even after you have achieved "Mastery."

For the life of me I can't explain why some folks (not you, but you know what I mean) find this counter-intuitive or even radical.

Maybe it's just more fun to shoot the messenger than read the message . . .

I think I said that already.
That goes with most all the things about the shot. You have to learn what is needed and try to find the easiest way to do it."

last night i worked out htat if I really concentrated on sights and trigger, in fact my sights werent as well set as they might be = high and right. So after about 40 shots of 'pure concentration' - as much as I could, i had moved a number of clicks, then shot a 279 + 280 /300. So at least I am getting back on track... pity about the odd 7 !!!

Now I am trying to grind in that process, and I still have 2 weeks to my next set of comp cards that I need to shoot, so hope to bang in something to that standard as a minimum.

Confidence has recovered!!