TargetTalk

I cut my teeth in rimfire benchrest .22 competition. Looks like the argument is getting wrapped around the wrong axil. They are two different games! The equipment used is each game are both top notch! Benchrest stocks are of course designed to ride a rest or bag and hopefully recoil the same way each and every time. Prone rifle are made to hold. The prone shooter does his part to hold the rifle the same way each and every time. If I was a betting man. I'd bet every top prone rifle that is winning that was set up in a benchrest stock would be competitive in the benchrest game, and vise versa. Before they were called tuners....weight systems and sight extension systems were used long before they were glorified in the benchrest game. Custom "benchrest" actions only grew because good used target actions were just getting harder and harder to come by. There was a market for actions easily suited for the benchrest stocks and the benchrest game. I've seen time and time again factory Anchutz actions with factory barrels shooting neck and neck with the custom jobs. Comes down to once again who got that great lot of ammo and who is shooting well in both disciplines. Even these new $9000 price tag Grunig's need a good shooter and ammo behind them. All of them have to setup correctly and tweeked to be top notch. That's the truth!

Tenring

After reading thru all the great comments so far I can see that there is a definate trend emerging leading strait to the only acceptable conclusion. No question about it. I'm going with a Mossberg :-)

In all seriousness guys - keep up the good work and keep those suggestions coming. I'm soaking everything in like a sponge. Spent quite a lot of time walking up and down the firing line at Camp Perry this year watching the smallbore competition and talking to all the vendors and have also had quite a bit of fun watching all the ISSF videos of smallbore prone World Cup matches on YouTube. Very informative. Lots of Bleiker, Anschutz, Walther, FWB, etc. and ya gotta love Sergei Martynov with his old school Anschutz in a classic wooden stock etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4XCU4tmsM0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz3c6Fv1 ... ure=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWJs0EkR ... ure=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B498EUcS ... ure=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1gTJCJt ... re=related

Dave,

You may be content with your selection of a Mossberg, however we are not done hijacking this thread so put down your U-tube and keep reading.

Bill Burkert presented the argument:

All things being equal, the guy with the most accurate rifle wins the prone match.

Here are my assumptions.
1) Shooter A has a 1/2" (100 yards) rifle and ammo.
2) Shooter B has a 3/4" rifle and ammo.
3) Both shooters have an identical 1/2" "hold", for lack of a better word.
4) The shooters are side by side and shoot at the same instant where a wind pushes their respective bullets 1".

The result is that Shooter A has a ten (.5" + .5" + 1.0" = 2") and Shooter B has a 9 (.75" + .5" + 1.0" = 2.25).

I rest my case.

to make the case the absolute accuracy was a paramount factor. Unfortunately he has chosen to simply add the displacement errors created by the rifle and the shooter, presenting the idea that on on star crossed shot the wind, shooter and rifle all push the shot in the same direction ending up with his results.

Statistically there is an equal chance the rifle and shooter error will offset rather than compliment or some combination of the two. Therefore the rifle accuracy and shooter consistency should be summed as a root mean square.

Shooter A sqrt(0.5^2+0.5^2)=0.707 inches
Shooter B sqrt(0.75^2+0.5^2)=0.901 inches

Next this random displacement from center can be left, right, up or down so we will take half of that group diameter to get radial displacement.

Shooter A 0.707/2=0.354"
Shooter B 0.901/2=0.451"

Now add your one inch wind displacement is also random in that the sum of the errors of rifle and shooter displacement have an equal chance of offsetting or complimenting so root mean square again:

Shooter A sqrt(0.354^2+1^2)=1.061"
Shooter B sqrt(0.451^2+1^2)=1.097"

Statistically in the wind the "lesser" rifle is only going to be 0.036" looser than the "better" rifle. Is accuracy important, oh absolutely, but I can tell you the points I lose are because of me the shooter, not the rifle I am shooting. I will take improved technique and better condition reading skills over that slightly tighter rifle any day of the week, I am just not getting that much for the extra $$$ spent.

Cheers,
Dude

A real sleeper of a rifle is the Andre Tanner 50 Meter 22 LR target rifle.

Swiss made in 3 models ; model 90, model 205, model 206. In single shot or with magazine/ repeater.

I have 2 of these gems and they are superb rifles.

DAO