TargetTalk

Walter wrote:Some do.

I know only 5 from ISSF top-list:

YAUHLEUSKAYA, Lalita
SALUKVADZE, Nino
OTRYAD, Gundegmaa
ASHUMOVA, Irada
FERNANDEZ, Maria Pila

Futsker,
is it possible for you to be able to post a picture of the HR-82?
Most people outside of Russia have never seen one.

Walter wrote:Futsker,
is it possible for you to be able to post a picture of the HR-82?
Most people outside of Russia have never seen one.

I'll try to photograph it with sanction from Khaidurov.
Don't promise, that it will be fast.

What Khaidurov's model you never seen before:

TOZ-35
TOZ-35M
TOZ-36
TOZ-49
HR-64
HR-79
HR-82
HRB-88
IZH-HR-30
IZH-HR-31

?

Hey, why not take pictures of all of them, if you have the chance!? It is very nice and interesting to see pictures of russian quality guns.

TOZ-35 is well known (by me anyway), so maybe you don't need to take pictures of that.

/Axel

,After this discussion, I pulled all the test targets and compared group size. The guns we got in all had roughly a 10mm groups ctc, Oddly though, they were all elongated horizontally, by at least a third. This leads me to believe there is something wrong with the FWB testing cradle or something inherently creating side to side shift with the AW93s absorber system. In either case, it may mean that you can shoot a much better group out of your hand (based on sight to bore relationship alone) with the AW93 similar to 1911 45s that are built to lock up between barrel bushing and the link pin/locking lugs, and shoot like crap out of a rest, but will perform fine out of the hand.

Next, 8mm or 10mm or 15 mm groups what difference does it make?? The 10 ring is 50mm as pointed out by Petri.

Third, I was just out shooting one of these, and it is sweet shooting gun, especially if you like a straight grip like a 45 or Hammerli 208 as a lot of Americans are want to do

The group size can matter.
Wait until you have just lost a final at a big competition by O.2 of a point.
I have had it happen, every little bit helps.

David M wrote:The group size can matter.
Wait until you have just lost a final at a big competition by O.2 of a point.
I have had it happen, every little bit helps.

Surely though that same group size could also have increased your score in that competition by 0.2 of a point.

Pilkguns - Thank you for posting a reply and for taking the time to measure the groups.

pilkguns wrote: The guns we got in all had roughly a 10mm groups ctc, Oddly though, they were all elongated horizontally, by at least a third.

That sounds like an exact description of my test target.

loosing by .2 points on a 50mm 10 ring, means you lost by 10mms, and assuming you have an AWFUL shooting pistol that shoots 15mm groups, that still leaves 25mm that you lost because your shooting was not as good as the equipment is capable of, which I believe is a 250% great achievement of error.

If they were two alike guns on my agents counter, and I could see that one had a better testcard than than the other, I would for sure as I am human, pick the better target. But if I wanted the gun and and the test card was significantly smaller than the 10 ring, the best score I can make, then I would buy this pistol with no hesitation

Here we go again!
I'll phrase it a different way:

I like a gun to shoot where I point it. Very often the gun is not pointed exactly at the X ring (even though I prayed the previous night), because I'm not a machine rest.
Most shooters generally know when they let off a shot what they feel they did. Some swear under their breath and then smile when the shot that was supposed to be a 9 actually hit the 10 ring, or an X instead of a 10.

That was the "wide test group affect"....ie.....it is just as possible to increase your score as to decrease it with a broader grouping gun.
My preference would be know that it is shooting where I point it and not 15mm at random, and then anxiously await the score. That way, when you have lost the match, you know that it was you who messed up and not the gun.

I am reminded of a discussion I had with a gentleman regarding the armoury testing of Springfield "03s. Spreaking from first hand knowledge, he stated that the best barrels were marked with a star to indicate passing the star gauge test. These were subsquently test fired and inventoried with a test group. The best groups were called "bumble bee" groups. These were highly prized by shooters. However, it was found that a repeat test often negated the initial group: a bumble bee shooter might open up a bit, while a larger grouper might then turn in a "bumble bee".
There are numerous variables. Ammo, lot number, ambient temp/rel. humidity, barrel cleanliness. Most of us know this. Many .22s are notoriously inconsistent based just on barrel cleaning. (Squeeky clean doesn't always shoot best!)
I'd take the gun that will consistently shoot 12mm over one that turns in a 7-8mm group when conditions are right, only to open up before a match is done.

For David M, lost by 0.2 points sure hurts. But, God knows how the other guy got that extra 0.2. You never know, A 2/10000-second flinch, he shaked, got a sore-eye, a sweaty pinkey, a mosquito flew by, his 8mm-test-target gun jumpted too little on that shot, ..... : there are many variables that can affect the POI.
Many people shoot better than I do, but I don't think there is anyone who can beat me by 0.2 with every shot intentionally. It's just a lucky day for him and things will go around.
FWB maintained its reputation well and I will not hesitate to accpet a AW93s with 10mm test target.

Hi,
I measured my test target. The hole is 18 mm H and 18 mm V!
The target has been hit more than five times, more like 20 shoots.
No flyer!
I do not think that the factory has tried more than one sort of ammo.
If you shoot with a Ransom rest and use 6 different sorts of ammo they will perform differently. If you then blind folded should pick up a target from your test shooting can you say that this is representative for this gun?

I think that 20 mm spread (10 mm each way) is ok for practice. Rapid fire can be even worse.
Ammo should be:

1. Reliable and make the gun cycle all the time.
2. Low cost (I shoot 10 000+ .22 /year)



No need for Tenex in a pistol!

Kent