TargetTalk

Looking for some guidance.
If I have 60 minutes to train , is that time best suited to 10M AP with Scatt or just plane dry fire ? This last few weeks I have been doing 30 minutes of hold training ( 55 seconds up, 30 down ) followed by 30 minutes of just dry fire at the target. I am really focusing on trigger release for the whole hour.

Is it better to spend that last 30 on dry fire or should I bring in some live fire work?

My average is about 552 at the moment as I have been doing other things over the last 12 months but have really missed AP.
Thanks for any advice.
Mark S.

Make sure you are spending a lot of time dry firing against a blank wall. For me, that is higher priority than anything I do at a target.

If you can afford it, and the setup time required doesn't cut into your practice time, the SCATT will show you things you can't see with dry fire alone. It's easy to fool yourself into thinking your triggering is fine, but the SCATT will give you an unbiased evaluation. It can also show you things like if your hold is deteriorating because you are aiming too long, the quality of your follow-through, etc.

If there is no result (i.e. score) to worry about, it's also easy to dry fire in a relaxed manner that has little to do with what happens as soon as there is a target & score involved. The SCATT can show you even more than you can see with the naked eye with dry firing, AND there is now a result to deal with.

Because dry firing isn't the most fun in the world, I sometimes dry fire for a bit, and then shoot a shot on my electronic trainer (I have a Noptel, but it's that same idea). If the shot is well executed and followed my shot plan, I get to shoot again, even if the score isn't perfect. If something isn't quite right, I dry fire ten shots to work on whatever part of my shot process was lacking, and then fire another shot. The goal is not to fire a great score, but to hone and practice my shot process. The resulting shot process should (eventually) deliver the scores I'd like to see. Having a thorough understanding and absolute trust in your shot process is a great way to deal with a match. One shot at a time, and the score will be there at the end.

Reply from Gwhite is spot on!!
Dry firing is a key element to improvement. Dry fire at the same pace as you live fire.
For Air Pistol, have a shot plan. As an example, using a timer - prepare to fire every 40 seconds. This gives you a moment to rest between shots, and takes away the tendency to rush through the match. Have regular rest breaks after a certain number of shots.

I use a SCATT. I deliberately do not centre my shots on the 10ring. Shooting for group consistency without regard for score takes away the compulsion to "try to hit the 10". Concentrate on what is happening in the last second before firing, that is where the errors lay. The Scatt will give you a theoretical score, based on the centre of your group(s) being centred on the target, so you can plot your score progression.

Max.

If you have 33’, why not just live fire?
But if you are truly concerned between dry fire and scatt, I would use scatt as you get feedback. No feedback other than your shot call with dry firing.

Dryfire into a blank target/wall is a must. If you are interested about some sensor data - get MantisX (just do not read/use/rely on their analysis and identified reason)

Thanks all.
Yes I do live fire at home with an electric target but I find I shoot to score rather than to train. I spend a good amount of time against a bland wall during the 55 seconds on then off.
I will try to mix them all up and work on the details.
many thanks.

GWhite, have you shared your shot process here? I have the MEC book and have spent 4 hours with Dina which was great but am always looking for more guidance.
thanks

I have a write up I did a number of years ago for the team I help coach, but it's probably a bit out of date. I can try to review, update that & post it.

A proper shot process is a very personal thing. You need to find out what works best for YOU. The MEC book is the best reference around to help you find a good starting point. You are already shooting pretty well, you just need to refine things a bit, practice until it becomes automatic (muscle memory), and then master mental management to be able to deliver under pressure.

When you are training, every shot is an experiment. One of the advantages of an electronic trainer is that it gives you a lot more data about how the experiment went than just a hole in the paper. When you have a good shot, stop and REALLY try to pick it apart; how long did you rest before the lift?, how quickly did you lift?, where were your eyes focused during the lift, how high did you come above the target?, when did you acquire your sights?, when did you take every breath?, when did you begin to drop down into your hold?, etc. The idea is to analyze and reinforce ALL the little details that lead to a good shot.

It also helps you to detect when something isn't right. Once you learn what a 10 looks like and feels like as it's unfolding, if you detect ANYTHING that doesn't look or feel like it's going to be a 10, ABORT. Collect your wits, review the part of your shot process that went awry, and start again. In one of JP O'Connor's excellent "On The Firing Line" articles, he said "Shooting 10's is good. NOT shooting not-10's is also good."

If you get a bad shot, don't dwell on it. Identify the most likely deviation from your ideal shot process that might have caused it. Forget about the bad shot and concentrate on reviewing the proper execution of that step. Over time, you will learn to quickly identify what was missing from the execution of your process, know what the correct execution requires, and have a drill that you can do to reinforce that part of the sequence.

The better you get, the more subtle the errors become. Learning to identify them requires a lot of serious introspection & honesty with yourself. An electronic trainer will show you things it's easy to miss and/or ignore in dry firing alone. Learning to fix them requires a lot of dedication & focus.

Thank you so much for that detailed answer. I will work on that along with the MEC book and a Bullseye Mind.

I only have some small experience using a SCATT while training with John Zurek.

If I wasn't constantly whining "poor mouth", I'd be using one. It is FAR more useful than
dry firing. You can tell by the number of posts saying how the shooter can't see his screw-ups.

i don;t really see the major benefits of dry firing against a blank white wall...
i did 15 mins of it just now: no problem in focusing on the front sight, perfect sight alignment all the time, smooth trigger squeeze without disturbing the sights. since there is no reference, i can't tell how much the hand is moving - if at all.
without the black bull it;s too easy to focus on the front sight and trigger operation. plus you are not working the shoulder muscles to maintain the pistol aligned with the target

30 mins of Trace training (a cheaper version of scatt) it much more intense/productive

Azmodan wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:35 pm without the black bull it;s too easy to focus on the front sight and trigger operation.

That's the point. You're developing the habit of focusing on the front sight, so when you do shoot at the target, you have the muscle memory.

The blank wall theory does work well as when I train on a Electronic target with the only the white side showing and see the actual score it is always around 93-94 and always better than my deliberate series at the subsequent proper targets. Will try and accommodate both types.