There's a pretty good chance one of those air pistols offered for sale below will end up in my wobbly hand.... I need a way to fill it...
I've read the two or three threads below on scuba tanks and Pilk's great article... http://www.pilkguns.com/scuba.htm and the exploding tank articles on the 'web...
Now, being a highpower rifle shooter, I am perfectly comfortable with an 8 lb keg of Varget or a case of 5000 primers... but this stuff about exploding scuba tanks is a little disconcerting...
So is the thought of spending $160+ for a tank, then $50 to $100 for a yoke...
How much work is it to use the $175 hand pump to fill 2 air pistol cylinders? Is it an enjoyable 5 minute workout, or half an hour of drudgery?
How long does the $4.50 scuba refill last, some posts say a year of shooting... but on the scuba websites they recommend NOT storing a full tank, which is effectively what you'd be doing if it lasts a year.
Also, is the manometer on the yoke Nygord sells really worth the extra $50 it costs (vs Pilk's)? can one not just weigh the tank on a bathroom scale and know how full it is?
everyone says, secure it upright at home and in your car when travelling... how do you do that? just lash it to a table leg or seatbelt or do most shooters spend more money on some tank carrier?
Any further thoughts?
Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
bill-at-poole.com.43333.0
Scuba vs Hand Pump
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
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LesJ
Re: Scuba vs Hand Pump
It is 5 minute workout, which your heart will thank you later for it.
I have both scuba and pump. Lately I am to lazy to go to my shed to use scuba, becouse pump is right here at home and it is a breeze to fully refill my kids and my air cylinders.
.43337.43333
I have both scuba and pump. Lately I am to lazy to go to my shed to use scuba, becouse pump is right here at home and it is a breeze to fully refill my kids and my air cylinders.
.43337.43333
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pdeal
Re: Scuba vs Hand Pump
Bill: Scuba tanks are very safe. Just either lay them down or strap them to the wall. This is the rule for any compressed gas cylinder. If an air rifle might be in your future then I'd go with the tank. The cylinder on my anschutz 2002 is about 3 times the size of the cylinder on the steyr LP10 I had for a while. I don't think the yoke with the guage is worth the extra $50. Every airgun i know of comes with either an accessory guage to check the cylinders or it is built into the end.
pdeal-at-mylanlabs.com.43344.43333
pdeal-at-mylanlabs.com.43344.43333
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Michael
Re: Scuba vs Hand Pump
I just went through this so I'll pass along what I found out. If you go with the scuba tank you will have clean, dry air. With a pump there is a great chance of getting moisture into your cylinder and therefore your gun. My Morini 162EI Short has smaller capacity cylinders which must be filled after about 80 shots so I'm glad I went the scuba route. Make sure you get an 80 cu. ft. aluminum tank that is rated for 3,000 psi. I was tempted to get a used steel tank, but when I told the folks at the scuba shop what I was going to use it for I was told that the pressure rating was lower so I passed on it. I've been told that you can get stung by buying used aluminum tanks. I was going to get a 200 bar DIN valve, but the scuba shop only had 300 bar DIN valves which were too deep to accept the adapter for the air pistol. The DIN valves cost $20 more than the standard K valves. I settled on the K valve and an adapter from Pilkguns. The adapter with the guage that Don Nygord sells looks like a great feature, but I didn't want to shell out the extra bucks. If you live close to Champion's Choice near Nashville, TN, they have the aluminum tank with proper DIN valve for $180. This would save you the $50-$100 for the adapter. My scuba shop said that nowadays all scuba shops can fill cylinders with DIN valves. It isn't a big deal to get the tank filled and I think that before I go to a big match and take my tank, that I'll have it topped off. The aluminum tanks are supposed to have the exterior visually checked every year, so I'll probably have it topped off then. My tank cost me $180 from my local scuba shop, which included the K valve and a free first-time fill. The owner of the shop (in business for 18 years) told me that aluminum tanks get "worked" from divers who empty their tanks frequently. He said that shooters only fill their tanks when the pressure gets too low to shoot so they aren't run dry. Shooters only get their tanks refilled every year or so. You can haul your tank around in your car secured by your seat belt, and "lash it to a table leg" at home. Tanks and valves are tough. Divers give them pretty rough treatment. I haul mine around in the back of my pick up so I made a rack out of PVC pipe covered with pieces of an old bicycle inner tube which I stretched over the pipe to keep the tank in place. I secure the tank to the rack with rubber bungee chord. Keep in mind that if you are in a big time collision and the tank gets loose and impacts hard enough it can become a dangerous missle or bomb. To sum up, do yourself a favor and buy an 80 cu. ft. 3,000 psi aluminum tank with K valve from your scuba shop. Order an adapter so that when your gun arrives you can try it out immediately. Have fun. I've been shooting the heck out of my new AP and am having a ball.
: There's a pretty good chance one of those air pistols offered for sale below will end up in my wobbly hand.... I need a way to fill it...
: I've read the two or three threads below on scuba tanks and Pilk's great article... http://www.pilkguns.com/scuba.htm and the exploding tank articles on the 'web...
: Now, being a highpower rifle shooter, I am perfectly comfortable with an 8 lb keg of Varget or a case of 5000 primers... but this stuff about exploding scuba tanks is a little disconcerting...
: So is the thought of spending $160+ for a tank, then $50 to $100 for a yoke...
: How much work is it to use the $175 hand pump to fill 2 air pistol cylinders? Is it an enjoyable 5 minute workout, or half an hour of drudgery?
: How long does the $4.50 scuba refill last, some posts say a year of shooting... but on the scuba websites they recommend NOT storing a full tank, which is effectively what you'd be doing if it lasts a year.
: Also, is the manometer on the yoke Nygord sells really worth the extra $50 it costs (vs Pilk's)? can one not just weigh the tank on a bathroom scale and know how full it is?
: everyone says, secure it upright at home and in your car when travelling... how do you do that? just lash it to a table leg or seatbelt or do most shooters spend more money on some tank carrier?
: Any further thoughts?
: Poole
: http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
.43356.43333
: There's a pretty good chance one of those air pistols offered for sale below will end up in my wobbly hand.... I need a way to fill it...
: I've read the two or three threads below on scuba tanks and Pilk's great article... http://www.pilkguns.com/scuba.htm and the exploding tank articles on the 'web...
: Now, being a highpower rifle shooter, I am perfectly comfortable with an 8 lb keg of Varget or a case of 5000 primers... but this stuff about exploding scuba tanks is a little disconcerting...
: So is the thought of spending $160+ for a tank, then $50 to $100 for a yoke...
: How much work is it to use the $175 hand pump to fill 2 air pistol cylinders? Is it an enjoyable 5 minute workout, or half an hour of drudgery?
: How long does the $4.50 scuba refill last, some posts say a year of shooting... but on the scuba websites they recommend NOT storing a full tank, which is effectively what you'd be doing if it lasts a year.
: Also, is the manometer on the yoke Nygord sells really worth the extra $50 it costs (vs Pilk's)? can one not just weigh the tank on a bathroom scale and know how full it is?
: everyone says, secure it upright at home and in your car when travelling... how do you do that? just lash it to a table leg or seatbelt or do most shooters spend more money on some tank carrier?
: Any further thoughts?
: Poole
: http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
.43356.43333
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Ed Knutson
Re: Scuba vs Hand Pump
Bill:
I have both here at home. If you are going to be in LA this weekend, please give us a call and you can check them both out firsthand. Having had both now for about 3 or 4 years, the SCUBA setup gets my vote. It is better for your airgun because of the completely dry and oilfree contents and the 80 cu.ft. tanks are readily available here for about $120 new, the yoke about $30.
Ed Knutson
the2lts-at-earthlink.net.43359.43333
I have both here at home. If you are going to be in LA this weekend, please give us a call and you can check them both out firsthand. Having had both now for about 3 or 4 years, the SCUBA setup gets my vote. It is better for your airgun because of the completely dry and oilfree contents and the 80 cu.ft. tanks are readily available here for about $120 new, the yoke about $30.
Ed Knutson
the2lts-at-earthlink.net.43359.43333
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Chris L in NC
Pump works fine with a little planning
Bill, glad to see you over here. I just betcha your rifle shooting will improve if you make an effort to get good with the air pistol. Wobbling is perfectly normal and that's why they make the target bigger for air pistols. Even though the 10 ring is equivalent to hitting a 9mm casing end-on at 10m, it can be done. Like Gunny Owens says, accept your wobble area! (not "be proud" of it!) Keep the sights lined up and the trigger under control, and amaze yourself with how high you can score.
I just got a very very nice used LP10 from Warren last week and a brand-new Hill air pump. Scuba would be preferable, and costs about the same overall as a pump, except that I am blessed with 10m ranges both at home and at the office (it's good ta be da king), two scuba setups would be more money than I want to spend, and I don't want to haul scuba tanks around in the trunk. It did take about 10 minutes of pumping to fill each cylinder from empty when I first got them. Now at the end of each shooting session, I top up the cylinder, which takes less than 5 minutes, even after firing 130 shots. The pump is well designed so you can just kind of lean on the handle repeatedly and transfer your entire upper body weight through your hands. Should be no prob for a rough tough HP shooter!
About the moisture issue, Hill sells an air filter for their Mk2 pump that should fix it. What I do is when possible I fill cylinders in my office, which has central air and low humidity.
As far as a type of air pistol to get, I am very happy with my LP10. It is for all practical purposes recoilless, the two-stage trigger is great (though I wish for a skinnier trigger shoe), the grip and sights adjust more ways than a barber's chair, and I know it can take me to world level if I don't let it down. For those who do not play CDs of Olympic music while shooting, an LP1 will do you fine; it doesn't have the stabilizer doohickey and will kick a bit more but it's just as accurate and adjustable. LP1s have won many medals and I think Warren has both a new and used one still on hand.
However, any SAM, FWB, Pardini, Morini, Walther, or even IZH (the Steyr is now on the shooting bench, the Izzy is still in my heart) that you like the feel and balance of can take you wherever you want to go. Try as many as possible. See you on the line.
chrisatty-at-hotmail.com.43364.43333
I just got a very very nice used LP10 from Warren last week and a brand-new Hill air pump. Scuba would be preferable, and costs about the same overall as a pump, except that I am blessed with 10m ranges both at home and at the office (it's good ta be da king), two scuba setups would be more money than I want to spend, and I don't want to haul scuba tanks around in the trunk. It did take about 10 minutes of pumping to fill each cylinder from empty when I first got them. Now at the end of each shooting session, I top up the cylinder, which takes less than 5 minutes, even after firing 130 shots. The pump is well designed so you can just kind of lean on the handle repeatedly and transfer your entire upper body weight through your hands. Should be no prob for a rough tough HP shooter!
About the moisture issue, Hill sells an air filter for their Mk2 pump that should fix it. What I do is when possible I fill cylinders in my office, which has central air and low humidity.
As far as a type of air pistol to get, I am very happy with my LP10. It is for all practical purposes recoilless, the two-stage trigger is great (though I wish for a skinnier trigger shoe), the grip and sights adjust more ways than a barber's chair, and I know it can take me to world level if I don't let it down. For those who do not play CDs of Olympic music while shooting, an LP1 will do you fine; it doesn't have the stabilizer doohickey and will kick a bit more but it's just as accurate and adjustable. LP1s have won many medals and I think Warren has both a new and used one still on hand.
However, any SAM, FWB, Pardini, Morini, Walther, or even IZH (the Steyr is now on the shooting bench, the Izzy is still in my heart) that you like the feel and balance of can take you wherever you want to go. Try as many as possible. See you on the line.
chrisatty-at-hotmail.com.43364.43333
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Dave
Re: Scuba vs Hand Pump
Why not look a Co2 match pistol?( Basicly same guns, different propelant) There is very little disadvantage to Co2 vs scuba unless shooting in very cold weather or high altitudes and lots of advantages. Co2 tanks run at MUCH lower pressures and can be leased at any welding gas supply for $68 . Cost is $14 to trade for a full one from from then on. ( i.e no user inspections. Just return it for a new tank when it's empty in 3-4 years of shooting!) There are also some awsome deals on 3-10 yr old Co2 guns out there. A good used Co2 match pistol will run you in the $350-$750 range. FWIW I shoot a StyerLP1 and (newly aquired) FWB 2 mini in CO2 and will not consider "upgrading" for a LONG time as these guns are just a joy to shoot and own.
hth
There's a pretty good chance one of those air pistols offered for sale below will end up in my wobbly hand.... I need a way to fill it...
: I've read the two or three threads below on scuba tanks and Pilk's great article... http://www.pilkguns.com/scuba.htm and the exploding tank articles on the 'web...
: Now, being a highpower rifle shooter, I am perfectly comfortable with an 8 lb keg of Varget or a case of 5000 primers... but this stuff about exploding scuba tanks is a little disconcerting...
: So is the thought of spending $160+ for a tank, then $50 to $100 for a yoke...
: How much work is it to use the $175 hand pump to fill 2 air pistol cylinders? Is it an enjoyable 5 minute workout, or half an hour of drudgery?
: How long does the $4.50 scuba refill last, some posts say a year of shooting... but on the scuba websites they recommend NOT storing a full tank, which is effectively what you'd be doing if it lasts a year.
: Also, is the manometer on the yoke Nygord sells really worth the extra $50 it costs (vs Pilk's)? can one not just weigh the tank on a bathroom scale and know how full it is?
: everyone says, secure it upright at home and in your car when travelling... how do you do that? just lash it to a table leg or seatbelt or do most shooters spend more money on some tank carrier?
: Any further thoughts?
: Poole
: http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
weehooker-at-att.net.43400.43333
hth
There's a pretty good chance one of those air pistols offered for sale below will end up in my wobbly hand.... I need a way to fill it...
: I've read the two or three threads below on scuba tanks and Pilk's great article... http://www.pilkguns.com/scuba.htm and the exploding tank articles on the 'web...
: Now, being a highpower rifle shooter, I am perfectly comfortable with an 8 lb keg of Varget or a case of 5000 primers... but this stuff about exploding scuba tanks is a little disconcerting...
: So is the thought of spending $160+ for a tank, then $50 to $100 for a yoke...
: How much work is it to use the $175 hand pump to fill 2 air pistol cylinders? Is it an enjoyable 5 minute workout, or half an hour of drudgery?
: How long does the $4.50 scuba refill last, some posts say a year of shooting... but on the scuba websites they recommend NOT storing a full tank, which is effectively what you'd be doing if it lasts a year.
: Also, is the manometer on the yoke Nygord sells really worth the extra $50 it costs (vs Pilk's)? can one not just weigh the tank on a bathroom scale and know how full it is?
: everyone says, secure it upright at home and in your car when travelling... how do you do that? just lash it to a table leg or seatbelt or do most shooters spend more money on some tank carrier?
: Any further thoughts?
: Poole
: http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
weehooker-at-att.net.43400.43333