A. Kudelin, the last 0.2 seconds, and the 'follow through"

[scerir]

Alexander Kudelin (SCATT) writes:
https://www.scatt.com/article-coordination
"While aiming, and having made necessary adjustments, a shooter makes a decision and instructs his finger «to pull the trigger». The time delay between having made the decision and executing the shot is 0.2-0.3 seconds. The same is observed on the target while undertaking the simplest analysis of an aiming trajectory. In the following example the aiming trajectory 0.2 seconds prior to actual shooting is shown in blue, while the trajectory 1second prior to shooting is shown in yellow. It is evident that a shooter holds the weapon rather firmly in line with the centre of the target during the 1 to 0.2 second time span prior to actual shooting, but that the weapon is deflected from the aiming point during the last 0.2 seconds. This phenomenon may be called the Number One problem in shooting. In fact, it is encountered by every shooter- from a beginner to an Olympic champion. When asked, a sportsman answers that either his finger fails to pull the trigger, or that the trigger is too hard to pull. Another common response is that the stability is good, but that at the point of shooting the weapon deflects from the centre. The main cause of the problem lies in the loss of control over the weapon’s position. The origin of the error is as follows: When making a shot a shooter must focus his attention on three main components: AIMING, PULLING THE TRIGGER, and CONTROL OF WEAPON’S POSITION. But, as is known from physiology and psychology, a person cannot effectively focus his attention on several actions at the one time. One action is OK, two is a considerably worse, while three and over are impossible to control simultaneously. This is precisely the case with shooting, where there are three elements. Prior to shooting a shooter focuses his attention on AIMING and ARMS POSITION CONTROL; after adjustment he makes a decision to PULL THE TRIGGER, but his concentration capacity is insufficient and he is forced to ‘borrow’ from the AIMING or the ARMS POSITION CONTROL actions, more commonly from the ARMS POSITION CONTROL, thus resulting in an inaccurate shot. Let us address each of the actions one by one so as to better understand the problem. ARMS POSITION CONTROL is always top priority. The arms position must be controlled prior to shooting, at the moment of shooting, and after shooting. AIMING and PULLING THE TRIGGER are two actions of competitive priorities the relative significance of which has given rise to much disagreement and dispute. Physiology provides us with the answer as to which should be accorded priority. When focusing one’s attention on working muscles (finger) the response time, on average, is 0.2 seconds, while focusing one’s attention on the sensor system (aiming) yields a response time of 0.3 seconds."

Now my naive question is the following. Is that the actual, real reason for the 'follow through'? I mean, is the 'follow through' the only tactic to prevent that lack of control of weapon position in the last 0.2 seconds between the (subconscious?) mental order "fire now" and the actual, physical release of the shot? It seems so.

-Serafino

[SteveT]

I don't agree with everything said, but I am no expert. Most, if not all, "explanations" for shooting mistakes and success are not based in fact. I'm not sure it is possible to scientifically prove them until we have a machine that can read our minds and actually decode exactly what our thoughts are from millisecond to millisecond. They can still be useful if it helps you to shoot better.

I don't think of Arm Position Control and Aiming as two separate areas of concentration. When I start my raise, I think about my arm, but about 2/3 of the way up, I am looking for the sights and thinking about aiming. I don't have any conscious thought about my arm or wrist, only aiming.

It is possible that pulling the trigger distracts my concentration from aiming, but it feels more like I am trying to pull the trigger too fast, snatching, jerking or what you call "fire now!" The concept of "follow through" could address either situation, keeping focused on aiming all the way through the shot. My best results are when I settle in and a calm voice in my head says "I am settled on target" then all of a sudden the gun goes off.

There is no question that very few shooters shoot their area of hold. We all screw up the shot in the last moments. I attended a Brian Zins class in which we all held a laser sighted pistol on target at 25 yards, no trigger, just raise and hold. Almost everyone in the class held inside the black and a third or more held the x-ring. Several of us held smaller areas than Brian Zins yet he has 13 (?) national championships.

[Spencer]

I don't know how the 0.2 seconds/follow through applies to baseball bats, swords, knives and other 'weapons', but...

...in a coaching context for target pistol, I know that having a shooter 'follow through' can make a big difference to eliminating wild shots.

One of the exercises I sometimes have a shooter do, is tell me:
A/ was the shot (i.e. the sights) high/low/left/right/in the 'center'/whatever when it was released
B/where the sights and the sight picture ended up.
This exercise works for all the pistol disciplines. With a bit of application from the shooter, the exercise can even work in a 4-seconds run in RFP.

One of my mantras is "no matter how bad a shot looked on release, no shot is ever improved by lack of a proper through"

[deadeyedick]

One of my mantras is "no matter how bad a shot looked on release, no shot is ever improved by lack of a proper through"

How true this is.

[seamaster]

There are too many negatives in your sentence, sorry could not pick up the essence of your mantra.

You mean, no matter how bad the shot is, the shot is always improved by follow through?

[Spencer]

There are too many negatives in your sentence, sorry could not pick up the essence of your mantra.

You mean, no matter how bad the shot is, the shot is always improved by follow through?

Nope - but a shot will be made worse by lack of follow through.

[seamaster]

Got it.

[thirdwheel]

Serafino thank you for posting your thoughtful post on the big issue we all face, if we want to do more than play at 10m pistol. I am a student of Scatt and use it a lot at home when training to help analyse what I have just done, even though I evaluate each shot without looking at the scatt data, I then compare my perception to what really happened. But the bottom line is keep it simple as possible (words from my great but rather bemused coach as I try so hard to over complicate the whole thing). Try and get your subconscious to pull the trigger without thought of "wow great pull". Try not pulling the trigger but just putting weight on the thing and if it does not release abort the shot and not give the trigger a little pull to get it on it's way. Also try putting more weight on the second stage and if you are using a mechanical trigger set the sear so it only just holds, but test it for safety reasons. You need to train just putting weight onto the trigger to wipe the lunge or fast pull you have recorded in your head. Yup follow through just calms it all down and it pleases me to see my competitors not doing it.

I've renamed the trigger the "random shot device"

There is so much involved to produce the perfect release time and time again, but I think your analysis is not far short of what we all need to work on to improve.

[django]

Like old kungfu movie guru said...."try look at right side when your head turn left"

That's what happen when you study howto shooting pistol 101.

[Elmas]

In a perfect world follow thru is not an intentional step but rather proof that shot release was good. It is a passive manifestation .

elmas

[BobGee]

[quote="SteveT"]I don't think of Arm Position Control and Aiming as two separate areas of concentration. When I start my raise, I think about my arm, but about 2/3 of the way up, I am looking for the sights and thinking about aiming. I don't have any conscious thought about my arm or wrist, only aiming.[/quote]

I agree SteveT. I think that the Kudelin article was written with reference to rifle shooting where, I suspect, arms position is more critical. With pistol, the arm and gun are, or should be, one.

Spencer's comment is very true.

Bob

[EdStevens]

Nowhere in the analysis is the mental/emotional aspect of shooting mentioned, and that is so important in my experience that I find it hard to agree with it completely. Things go sideways in the last fraction of a second as the shot breaks, no question IMO. Very often that is due to some form of anticipation of the shot: lack of commitment/confidence on the trigger press; emotional tension; the conscious mind becoming too involved in the physical action; and so on. The importance of maintaining a state of calmness and a positive focus on the shot process throughout (and into follow-through) is what causes a lot of flyers in my case. Once that state is achieved and acknowledged, then I agree much more with the conclusions.