TargetTalk

I am curious if it is possible to "shoot out" an AP barrel? I see people selling AP's and touting that only x number of tins went through it. I have put over 30,000 through my FAS 609 in the year I've had it. I'm not NEARLY good enough to worry about accuracy drop but wonder when it occurs in an average AP. Any thoughts/experience?

nope, the velocities, pressure and temperature are too small. I've heard of old .22 short pistols that have millions put through them (club guns from 50 years ago).

.22lr is probably already a different story. Copper plated rifle rounds are yet another level again. Tank barrels only hold out a few hundred of sabot rounds before the barrel needs to be changed and hold out a 1000 HE shells.

Don’t fret over “shooting out” your AP barrel. It’s more likely you’ll spend a small fortune in pellets than wearing out your barrel in your lifetime. A high quality, and properly maintained AP will last several generations.

The two things that kill AR barrels are rust due to being kept 20 years unused in the garage, or over zealous cleaning with metal rods. Using them and (controversially) not cleaning the bore will ensure they live forever.

Heat and abrasion are the two things that wear down rifling. Air guns of any type don't generate near enough heat to wear down a barrel. Abrasion is a different story, but soft lead is pretty nonabrasive. Soft lead laps are what is used to hold the abrasive when lapping out bearing journals etc, as the lead wont do anything to the metal when it's rubbing. Assuming no environmental contaminates are introduced, I'd imagine that the rifling would be good for well into the millions of shots before any appreciable loss of accuracy occurs.

-Jenrick

With heat and abrasion the primary contributors to barrel wear, primarily the rifling, it is a known fact that the expansion of air when firing a shot with a modern PCP air pistol cools the barrel; combining the natural cooling with good quality ammunition and the barrel should last a very very long time. Cleaning the barrel incorrectly (or as some say - at all) will likely decrease the barrel life. Following the manufacturer's directions and recommendations for cleaning is prudent.

jenrick wrote:Heat and abrasion are the two things that wear down rifling. Air guns of any type don't generate near enough heat to wear down a barrel. Abrasion is a different story, but soft lead is pretty nonabrasive. Soft lead laps are what is used to hold the abrasive when lapping out bearing journals etc, as the lead wont do anything to the metal when it's rubbing. Assuming no environmental contaminates are introduced, I'd imagine that the rifling would be good for well into the millions of shots before any appreciable loss of accuracy occurs.

-Jenrick

Thanks for the input! I guess 60-100 shots a day won't kill it but what about seals?

A seal sits down at a bar.

Bartender asks, "What'll ya have."

Seal replies, "Anything but a Canadian club on the rocks."

Seals will wear, but that's just a function of use. They will also age, so there's no real reason to not use the pistol in hopes of it "lasting forever" or what not. My recommendation is just shoot it!

-Jenrick

jenrick wrote:Seals will wear, but that's just a function of use. They will also age, so there's no real reason to not use the pistol in hopes of it "lasting forever" or what not. My recommendation is just shoot it!

-Jenrick

I shoot it every night. I just worry about having to have it worked on. I will have to send it to Domino in Italy. I'll miss it I fear they'll take months to rebuild it. I started the thread in hopes of getting insight as to how for to go with the rebuild.

massrog wrote:I shoot it every night. I just worry about having to have it worked on. I will have to send it to Domino in Italy. I'll miss it I fear they'll take months to rebuild it. I started the thread in hopes of getting insight as to how for to go with the rebuild.

You don't need to send the pistol to Italy. If you can't replace all the seals by yourself, Airguns of Arizona is the importer of FAS airguns in the U.S., their airgunsmith can rebuild the pistol for you.

FWIW, these guys from the UK sell seals for the FAS 609: http://www.ebay.com/itm/FAS-AP604-amp-A ... 1796162015

They are listed as Bagnall & Kirkwood Ltd with a1tackleshop as their Ebay store. I've always had good luck buying airgun spares from the UK.

This post indicates that Tim at MAC1 can (has) reseal a FAS AP609: http://ttorg.targettalk.net/viewtopic.p ... &view=next

Of course, this is hearsay and may not be accurate. Here is the contact information for MAC1: http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/aboutus.asp

Good luck!

Stan

massrog wrote:Thanks for the input! I guess 60-100 shots a day won't kill it but what about seals?

If you are worried about the seals, you should acquire a full set of seals so you can replace them yourself, as needed. No need to send your pistol to an "expert" for simple seal replacement, when you can become one yourself.

As the previous post notes, kits are available. Buy one set, measure them, and then acquire extra seals without the expense of an entire kit. All the o-rings in the FAS 609 are conventional o-rings, nothing special.

Since there are only 6 seals to worry about (and doubtless 2-3 of those are cylinder seals), you can probably see the remaining seals without disassembling the pistol. Replacing them is not rocket science. And frankly, you need to be able to replace your own seals in case a failure occurs during an official match.

Otherwise, stop worrying and keep shooting. Your pistol will far outlast your ability to shoot it over your shooting career.

As long as the seals are conventional O-rings, replacing your own is a LOT quicker than shipping your pistol off to a repair shop, and a lot cheaper. I can buy a new O-ring from the manufacturer of many air pistols for about $5 a seal. I can buy a bag of 50 or 100 from McMaster Carr for the same amount.

"Nitrile" O-rings stored in ziplock bags will last a very long time. Some of the more exotic materials, like polyurethane, tend to fossilize over time no matter what you do, so laying in a big stock is counterproductive. Polyurethane is important for use in CO2 pistols, and tends to be a bit more wear resistant than nitrile. Even though some vendors (like Steyr) use polyurethane for their PCP seals, nitrile will work fine in most applications. You may just have to replace them every 9 years instead of 10...

The big problem is when the vendors use custom seals that aren't O-rings. This is often the case for valve seals, either on cylinders or the firing valve in the pistol. On rare occasions, you can still replace them with a suitable O-ring. Mostly you are at the mercy of the pistol manufacturer to continue to provide them, even when they no longer make a particular pistol.

Sound advice. Take it!

You guys make it sound like it's simple to do the switch! what do I need for tools?

For you, a bigger hammer.

Rover wrote:For you, a bigger hammer.

I didn't come here to be made sport of! lol

The tools required depend on your pistol.
Usually some allen (hex) metric keys, a flat head screwdriver should be enough.

There is noting magical about taking a pistol apart, although if that though scares you, you'll be better off taking it to someone who knows what they are doing.

A big hammer sometimes come in REALLY handy... ;)

Hope this helps