TargetTalk

I'd like to start up in bullseye, but man I hate 1911s and their grip angle. Are there any competitive guns that have a greater angle, i.e. similar to a Glock?

Pardini GT45. Rink grips.

Not much is available in 45, but there are several centerfire options. Beretta 92, Sig P240, S&W 52 and several Euro 32's.

Pardini GT45 is a good one, a 45 Revolver is another option. Springfield and the AMU are doing some good things with the XDM. If you are serious contact the Springfield custom shop. Initial reports of the Sig P320 are promising.

If you are shooting indoor and short course a Glock might be good enough to get started. Some of the run-and-gun gunsmiths may be able to improve the accuracy and trigger good enough to get you into Sharpshooter or Expert. I've not heard of anyone getting small 50 yard groups, but maybe it's possible if you find the right gunsmith.

Putting orthopedic grips on a 1911 will change the feel significantly. Rink, Dick Horton, Morini, Vitarbo, Herrett immediately come to mind (in no particular order). Search the forum for grip fitting for ideas about modifying grips to you liking.

Contact forum member ABerryhill of Precision Pistol Target Grips. He's 3D printed a lot of grips and is familiar with all the European guns and grips and might be able to adapt something to you desires.

I have a Pardini GT that I am considering selling, set up for Bullseye ready to go. PM me if you are interested.

Is it the case that a full 2700 is a rare thing these days? I'm really just trying to increase my opportunities to compete. If I can do that with a non-.45 then I would, but the 1800s around here seem to throw out the CF portion and keep the .45 portion. Maybe just roll with my revolvers until I feel I need a .45.

Why not 9mm? Sig is reissuing the P210 in two Target versions supposedly available in April. Otherwise EAA Tangfolio Witness Elite (Limited)? I guess they're close to 1911 angle though. Same angle but very different feel - double-stack so wider grip, and backstrap has a hump up top (think CZ) - feels to be a higher grip. Slide also copies CZ, running on the inside of the frame.

I used to run a Morini grip on mine.

jaxontarget wrote:Why not 9mm? Sig is reissuing the P210 in two Target versions supposedly available in April. Otherwise EAA Tangfolio Witness Elite (Limited)? I guess they're close to 1911 angle though. Same angle but very different feel - double-stack so wider grip, and backstrap has a hump up top (think CZ) - feels to be a higher grip. Slide also copies CZ, running on the inside of the frame.

Maybe I'm behind on the rules, I thought the third leg of a 2700 had to be .45?

Houngan wrote:

jaxontarget wrote:Why not 9mm? Sig is reissuing the P210 in two Target versions supposedly available in April. Otherwise EAA Tangfolio Witness Elite (Limited)? I guess they're close to 1911 angle though. Same angle but very different feel - double-stack so wider grip, and backstrap has a hump up top (think CZ) - feels to be a higher grip. Slide also copies CZ, running on the inside of the frame.

Maybe I'm behind on the rules, I thought the third leg of a 2700 had to be .45?

Someone who knows better can speak to the current rules (I thought 9 and up were OK), but the Tangfolio is available in .45. I have a Witness Limited Elite in 9mm built in the same frame as the .45 would be. It's an excellent Pistol for target. Does not feel at all like a 1911 because of the differences I stated, but the actual grip angle is close if not the same. So if it's just the angle itself that is the issue, look elsewhere.

Houngan wrote:I'd like to start up in bullseye, but man I hate 1911s and their grip angle. Are there any competitive guns that have a greater angle, i.e. similar to a Glock?

Go to http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php and take a long hard look at CZ97B. Its 45 ACP gun with Cajun Gun Works upgrades. The best ergonomics and shooting right with 1911s with 2-3time higher price tags. Fits the best medium and larger hands. From soft puff target loads to hardball with the same (factory) recoil spring and slide mounted RDS.
Felt recoil is softer then most 9mm.

Houngan wrote:Is it the case that a full 2700 is a rare thing these days? I'm really just trying to increase my opportunities to compete. If I can do that with a non-.45 then I would, but the 1800s around here seem to throw out the CF portion and keep the .45 portion. Maybe just roll with my revolvers until I feel I need a .45.

A full 2700 is the standard outdoor match, as always. At least in NJ. There are a few reduced matches around, but they're fairly rare. And yes, the third part (not a leg) of a 2700 HAS to be a .45. The first is .22LR, the second is any centerfire between .32 and .45. The majority of shooters use their .45 in CF.

The few 1800s I've seen typically are .22 and CF. Since most shooters use a .45 in CF it may appear that it's a .45 match. See the match bulletin or call the match director for the real word. Both registered and approved matches are listed in the NRA mag's.

One good thing about NJ, I can shoot a 2700 or two almost every weekend during the outdoor season.

PS The recoil of a .45 is what drives the grip angle steeper. You'll come to appreciate that in rapid.

boris wrote:

Houngan wrote:I'd like to start up in bullseye, but man I hate 1911s and their grip angle. Are there any competitive guns that have a greater angle, i.e. similar to a Glock?

Go to http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php and take a long hard look at CZ97B.

+1 on that, great .45 and DA/SA. I have the CZ75 SA in 9mm which shoots very nicely and the Kadett adapter converts it to .22 with absolutely identical feel. I use it for "traveling bullseye" since I can pack 2 calibers so lightly. Having a problem with light strikes on the .22 right now, but the 9mm operation is flawless and both are quite accurate even without CGW's attention. Kadett isn't available for the .45 though.

Or....you could learn to shoot a 45 1911

Christopher Miceli wrote:Or....you could learn to shoot a 45 1911

After ten years on the IPSC circuit, my feelings about the 1911 aren't going to change. Wonderful trigger, the rest of the gun you can throw in the trash. Make it friendly to a lefty with a grip angle that doesn't make me think I should throw it at a kangaroo, and you'd have something.

If their was a better 45 it would be used. I have a XDM in 9mm for service pistol and have used a XDM 45. Good results have been seen by amu, try that route? Also if you do with a glock last year glock gave out a free glock to the highest P100 with a glock, Springfield committed to 20 top p100 with XDMs

Also I am a lefty...with the time between strings can't see a benifit to a lefty setup..or you could get a lefty Cabot for 5k?

Christopher Miceli wrote:If their was a better 45 it would be used. I have a XDM in 9mm for service pistol and have used a XDM 45. Good results have been seen by amu, try that route? Also if you do with a glock last year glock gave out a free glock to the highest P100 with a glock, Springfield committed to 20 top p100 with XDMs

Also I am a lefty...with the time between strings can't see a benifit to a lefty setup..or you could get a lefty Cabot for 5k?

Don't underestimate the weight of tradition. If the 1911 were perfect, then we would be shooting free pistols and air pistols with the same grip angle. But for most of history the 1911 has been the only .45 in bullseye, thus people start with it, thus they get used to the grip angle, thus they prefer it. I didn't don't, and won't.

My question has been answered, thoroughly and thoughtfully, by others. I'm not sure what you think you're contributing to the thread by essentially telling me that my personal preference is wrong, but I assure you it is of no value.

Ohh..... let me know how a free pistol grip angle feels and recovers from 180 shots of 45

Christopher Miceli wrote:Ohh..... let me know how a free pistol grip angle feels and recovers from 180 shots of 45

So we're seeing lots of injuries from the Pardini grip, then?

Houngan wrote:

Christopher Miceli wrote:Ohh..... let me know how a free pistol grip angle feels and recovers from 180 shots of 45

So we're seeing lots of injuries from the Pardini grip, then?

haven't seen one in 45 so no clue? but many people have had injuries from shooting.. shoulder, elbow, wrist, forearm.

For me I can shoot a 3.5 of 4 lb. trigger easier with the 45 grip angle than the euro angle.
I don't think many free pistols have trigger weights in this range.