Tokyo 2020: ISSF Ad-Hoc Committee releases Shooting program

[ForceAwakens]

interesting.....

http://www.issf-sports.org/news.ashx?newsid=2713

Until we have a final decision by the IOC on the 2020 Olympic Program, the ISSF intends to keep all current events in the 2017 ISSF World Cup Series program, and to also conduct the proposed Mixed Gender Team events starting with the first 2017 ISSF World Cup Stage, in New Delhi, India. The events being replaced will continue to be conducted in all ISSF World Championships.

[David Levene]

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53893
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=53879
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=53890

[django]

So R.I.P for 50m pistol ?

[hundert]

yes rip,

but the best sports events in the world are outside Olympics (soccer, football, bodybuilding, boxing...).

[sparky]

I guess used free pistols are about to get real cheap. Maybe some fire sales on new ones too.

Olympics dead pool...what's next...Rapid Fire Pistol?

[Jon AP]

So, let me get this straight.

The 2020 Olympic pistol events will be:

Mens AP (60 shot)
Womens AP (40 shot)
Mixed team AP
Womens sport pistol
Mens rapid fire pistol

Will the mixed team AP be one man, one woman (as I understand is the case with the new mixed team rifle event)? Will it be 40 shots or 60 shots? I assume (and hope) that it won't be an unfired match taking the men's AP score and the women's AP score (silly to mix 60-shot and 40-shot events, but silly seems to be in season lately).

I agree with what many others have said regarding the rejection of the heavy focus on the Olympics. I'd prefer to see a vigorous world championship format with more competitors, longer courses of fire (e.g. three times over the normal course of fire for each event) and the elimination of the new finals format. So what if fellow competitive shooters are the only ones who would pay attention. The Olympics have become an overly hyped farce of what the sport should be. Useful as a means of presenting the sport to the public, but it's more of an exhibition than a championship.

[ghillieman]

Free Pistol on the chopping block under the desquise of gender equality. Equality does not limit others to bring one group up, but rather removes obstacles so everyone is on the same footing. True equality would not involve removing any Olympic sport. True equality would allow all shooters to compete in all shooting sports. A 100% male and female involvement in all of the shooting sports, not some convoluted team match which puts gender integration at only 20%. So the "Ad-Hoc" suggests the pistol sports have 2 male, 2 female, and one mixed team match, equality does not also include segregation. SMH....

[ChipEck]

Good posting on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/cm.morini.313/ ... 9439771447


Chip

The article:
"Dear Shooting friends,

here you have the number of participants in 2016:

10m Air Rifle Men: 585 Participants
50m Rifle Prone Men: 550 Participants
10m Air Rifle Women: 513 Participants
10 Air Pistol Men: 451 Participants
50m Rifle 3 position Men: 438 Participants
10m Air Pistol Women: 425 Participants
50m Rifle 3 Position Women: 403 Participants
50m Pistol Men: 386 Participants
25m Sport Pistol Women: 348 Participants
25m Rapid Fire Men: 239 Participants

As you can see 50m Pistol is far away from being the worst event.
It will be nice to know who is in the Ad-Hoc committee and to know how they went to this recommendations.

What we know is that Mr. Gary L. Anderson (gary.anderson@issf-sports.org) and Mrs. Susan B. Abbott (usaabbott@yahoo.com) wants to keep 25m Rapid Fire Men because:
"....The 25m RFP event now provides one of Shooting’s most interesting Finals and since this event is tied to the continuation of the 25m Pistol Women event, its elimination could be dangerous for all 25m pistol shooting....."

If you really want to keep 25m pistol shooting you can propose to have the 25m range build in the 50m range. This will save money at IOC and they will for sure like it.

"

[deadeyedick]

Our president Mr. Olegario Vazquez Rana and the Secretary General Mr. Schreiber have done a lot for ISSF to take to the point it is now. We have a financial solid federation and many time our president used his personally money to cover debts in organizing some ISSF competitions. For this we have to be grateful to them. But time pass for everybody and now ISSF organisation has aged members, members that are looking for the future of our sport and members that wants only to make their own business and get popularity with shooting. I’m not sure that our next president will do the same as our past one so I ask you to check carefully who have to take the decisions now for the future of our sport!

The answer lies within this paragraph from Francesco's article. ...consider who you want in these positions. And never forget that "they" are supposed to implement what the majority of "us" want.

That's how it works in principle. I wonder what consultation took place with ISSF free pistol shooters worldwide before this decision was adopted...and how many/few people hatched and approved this move. You have to wonder why a blue ribbon event like FP would be removed when women could be allowed to shot it as well. And for Air Pistol, how ridiculous to have Men's 60 shot and Women's 40 shot and now add a mixed gender team. Why not just have 60 shot AP available to men, women, and whatever gender deviation ? Also why LSP without an equivalent for men ? Simple ..Sport Pistol being shot by Men and Women.
Let's see....AP, FP, SP, RF.

Francesco's is in a position where if he complains too bitterly will be accused of having a financial interest in FP remaining in the OG, however as shooters we have the right to complain to our ISSF associations and place a vote of no confidence in the decision that has presumably been made.
Our worst enemy is assuming a submissive approach....Isn't this the case with so much in life.

[ChipEck]

Another interesting post that points out both men's and women's 25meter pistol events had fewer participants compared to 50 meter pistol.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/6518881 ... 043991480/


Chip

[JJJJJJ]

The only way free can be back is the termination of rapid and sport. The decision to have mixed air was put into consideration due to no one need buy additional equipment.

[ghostrip]

The decision to have mixed air was put into consideration due to no one need buy additional equipment.

I find this as a downgrade. The worst is we will have too many air events so the next thing they (IOC) will ask to decrease something it will be the air events.
Free pistol (even mixed) is in my eyes a better choice. Most if not all federation have 50m pistols to lend to female shooters. Also there are many female shooters that already have free pistols and shoot them well. Even 25m pistols can be used because hey its FREE pistol so no restrictions. You only have to put to the rules that you dont have to load one shot at a time. Mixed rapid fire would also be a good choice as women have already 25m guns.
Basically everything other what it is proposed to be done which in my opinion will put stress in our sport in the future (for example why have a 50m range only for 3position).

Oh and as someone said (i think it was damir mikec) mixed events is essentially a nations event. if you want a nations event better put bundesliga format with 5 persons per team against each other. Now that is a match i would love to see.

[renzo]

As they were shot at the 2014 YOG, mixed events were a joke in the strict sense of competition, they wren´t even a national team but two shooters mixed by an hazardous selective system. Where does the word "team" has any meaning in such a context??

[ghostrip]

i guess since it is the Olympics that a mixed team will have both its members from the same nation like for example in sailing. I cant think anything else.

[renzo]

i guess since it is the Olympics that a mixed team will have both its members from the same nation like for example in sailing. I cant think anything else.

Really IDK.................. it´s not easy for a lot of countries to have shooters winning Olympic quotas in the required events, so to keep it purely national would be utmost elitism!!

And besides, the IOC already DID this at the 2014 YOG , and the nationalities were aleatory, you can call it "bingo-shooting".

[ghostrip]

so teams in all Olympic team events should also be randomly selected with random coaches to prevent elitism. I would like to see the algorithm selecting 5-9 goalkeepers for a team in football or team vatican in basketball gets Lebron assigned and wins OG.

PS i wonder what would happen if Mesi was assigned to Brazil or Ronaldo to Iceland.

[madmax]

This quote exposes a problem in our sport (and possible others - we are not alone in this):

"But time pass for everybody and now ISSF organization has aged members, members that are looking for the future of our sport and members that wants only to make their own business and get popularity with shooting. I’m not sure that our next president will do the same as our past one so I ask you to check carefully who have to take the decisions now for the future of our sport!"

This (old people, closed minds) is evident from local club level, through to state and national level, and onward to international level. Too many people are prepared to let those who have been doing it, to continue doing it - thereby creating a situation where some people have become established in a position, and therefore rule for their own satisfaction and glory, and not necessarily for the betterment of their sport.

Time for some of the younger people (50+ ??) to take hold of the reins and begin guiding their sport into the future, instead of remaining back in the past.

[Chia]

This quote exposes a problem in our sport (and possible others - we are not alone in this):

"But time pass for everybody and now ISSF organization has aged members, members that are looking for the future of our sport and members that wants only to make their own business and get popularity with shooting. I’m not sure that our next president will do the same as our past one so I ask you to check carefully who have to take the decisions now for the future of our sport!"

This (old people, closed minds) is evident from local club level, through to state and national level, and onward to international level. Too many people are prepared to let those who have been doing it, to continue doing it - thereby creating a situation where some people have become established in a position, and therefore rule for their own satisfaction and glory, and not necessarily for the betterment of their sport.

Time for some of the younger people (50+ ??) to take hold of the reins and begin guiding their sport into the future, instead of remaining back in the past.

PM sent.

[Olympic Dreamer]

Tokyo 2020: ISSF Ad-Hoc Committee releases Shooting program recommendations: http://www.issf-sports.org/news.ashx?newsid=2713
Bindra: “look at the bigger picture, to ensure our strong presence within the Olympic movement”: http://www.issf-sports.org/news.ashx?newsid=2714

It's not yet confirmed but that was their recommendations.

"The Council will make a final decision on the recommendations that the ISSF must submit to the IOC by the end of February 2017. The IOC will make a final decision on the Tokyo 2020 Olympic Program in mid-2017."

We have to fight with all our might against their recommendation before final decision is made!

[renzo]

Tokyo 2020: ISSF Ad-Hoc Committee releases Shooting program recommendations: http://www.issf-sports.org/news.ashx?newsid=2713
Bindra: “look at the bigger picture, to ensure our strong presence within the Olympic movement”: http://www.issf-sports.org/news.ashx?newsid=2714

It's not yet confirmed but that was their recommendations.

"The Council will make a final decision on the recommendations that the ISSF must submit to the IOC by the end of February 2017. The IOC will make a final decision on the Tokyo 2020 Olympic Program in mid-2017."

We have to fight with all our might against their recommendation before final decision is made!

I mean no disrespect, but you´re obviously a dreamer.

The decision is already made, that´s the meaning of Mr. Bindra´s letter (see Shooters Lounge).

It always has been like this, they let it slip as a rumour or a mere "possibility" just for the shooting universe to get accostumed, then the blow comes............

Don´t you remember the gossip about the finals not carrying the quali scores after London 2012? And the letter by Niccolo Campriani? Thousands of us signed it, but by the time they let us "sniff" what was being cooked, the meal was already served.

Sincerely, I´ve read the letter by the owner of Morini Arms and frankly I don´t know how much money has put Mr. Vazquez Raña from his own pocket, nor do care about it.

What I do know is that after almost 40 years ruling ANYTHING, you tend to consider yourself unable to err, and also become very strongheaded. Nobody, in any organization, enterprise, party or country should remain at the helm for so long, not even half that long.

What we are seeing is a old fatherly figure who thinks he knows what´s best for all of us, and acts accordingly. Representation in the ISSF is nonexistent, for candidates must be subservient in the first place just to get into the organization.