TargetTalk

Jin Jong Oh won the gold in FP for the third time in a row.

How do these people do?? I mean, where do they find the drive to stay on the top after fulfilling what is almost every shooter´s dream TWICE??

MI hat is off to Jin.

But keep an eye on the Vietnamese shooter who won gold in AP, he got to the silver in FP. We will hear much more from him in the future, specially if the omens do not turn into reality and FP stays in the Olympic calendar......................

renzo wrote:How do these people do?? I mean, where do they find the drive to stay on the top after fulfilling what is almost every shooter´s dream?

The shooting sports are dominated by asian and caucasian people, I think it's in their genetics, just like basketball is dominated by blacks/afro-americans...

He was almost dead after four shots on the second stage!

He climbed back one small step after another small step.

Just keep on breathing! You never know what would happen in life!

That was a phenomenal recovery after nigh on going out half way through. I watched it live and was on the edge of my seat. He deserved the record three consecutive gold medals!

Yep that was amazing. Never give up is the message. After that 6.6 the comeback was phenomenal. 3 golds in a row makes Jin probably the best Olympic shooter in history (or close to it).

svensta wrote:Yep that was amazing. Never give up is the message. After that 6.6 the comeback was phenomenal. 3 golds in a row makes Jin probably the best Olympic shooter in history (or close to it).

Greatest (ISU/UIT/ISSF) pistol shooter of all time: Jin Jong-Oh, or Ralf Schumann?

Discuss.

Oh, and show your work.

john bickar wrote:

svensta wrote:Yep that was amazing. Never give up is the message. After that 6.6 the comeback was phenomenal. 3 golds in a row makes Jin probably the best Olympic shooter in history (or close to it).

Greatest (ISU/UIT/ISSF) pistol shooter of all time: Jin Jong-Oh, or Ralf Schumann?

Discuss.

Oh, and show your work.

Schumann. Because he had only RF. Jin has FP and Air (less pressure when you have a second chance!). Also, Schumann had a much longer period of dominace than Jin (so far...). Oh, and I'm a RF shooter so I'm bias!!!

Schumann: http://www.issf-sports.org/athletes/ath ... 1006196201

Jin: http://www.issf-sports.org/athletes/ath ... 2409197901

Equal in Olympic medals, but Schumann is streets ahead in overall career success.

j-team wrote:

john bickar wrote:

svensta wrote:Yep that was amazing. Never give up is the message. After that 6.6 the comeback was phenomenal. 3 golds in a row makes Jin probably the best Olympic shooter in history (or close to it).

Greatest (ISU/UIT/ISSF) pistol shooter of all time: Jin Jong-Oh, or Ralf Schumann?

Discuss.

Oh, and show your work.

Schumann. Because he had only RF. Jin has FP and Air (less pressure when you have a second chance!). Also, Schumann had a much longer period of dominace than Jin (so far...). Oh, and I'm a RF shooter so I'm bias!!!

Schumann: http://www.issf-sports.org/athletes/ath ... 1006196201

Jin: http://www.issf-sports.org/athletes/ath ... 2409197901

Equal in Olympic medals, but Schumann is streets ahead in overall career success.

Devil's advocate counterpoints:

1) Back-to-back-to-back Olympic gold medals.
2) Jin's FP accomplishments alone compare favorably with Schumann's in RF
3) Olympic golds and world records in 2x as many events as Schumann
4) Jin did it even after the ISSF made medaling an 8-person dice roll
5) Free Pistol is a bitch

(Disclosure: My personal opinion sides ever so slightly with Schumann, but I have a couple of inherent biases.)

john bickar wrote:
Devil's advocate counterpoints:

1) Back-to-back-to-back Olympic gold medals.
2) Jin's FP accomplishments alone compare favorably with Schumann's in RF
3) Olympic golds and world records in 2x as many events as Schumann
4) Jin did it even after the ISSF made medaling an 8-person dice roll
5) Free Pistol is a bitch

(Disclosure: My personal opinion sides ever so slightly with Schumann, but I have a couple of inherent biases.)

Counter-counter points:

1. Can't refute that, it's a fact.
2&3. How so, Schumann has more WCF, WC wins and more world records, even though he had only one event to do so!
4. That isn't Ralf's fault (and I think he would have prospered just as well under the "dice roll" system).
5. I agree, FP is a more than just a fickle mistress, it is indeed a bitch!

Heh, excellent counter-points on 2, 3, and 4 :)

There are a couple of differentiators:

A) Longevity and sustained excellence: (Schumann, by a mile. Not that Jin's is anything to sneeze at, but Schumann was a 30-year machine.)
B) Olympic excellence: Both are otherworldly; Jin is transcendent.

It depends on how one values oranges vs. clementines.

(And thanks for the fun and collegial discussion:)

And to stir the pot further:

Jin or Kim Rhode? (TBD, but Jin slightly)
Jin or Matt Emmons? (Hmmm and TBD)
Jin or Wang Yifu? (Jin)
Jin or Brian Zins? (Jin)
Jin or Doug Koenig? (Jin)

john bickar wrote:And to stir the pot further:

Jin or Kim Rhode? (TBD, but Jin slightly)
Jin or Matt Emmons? (Hmmm and TBD)
Jin or Wang Yifu? (Jin)
Jin or Brian Zins? (Jin)
Jin or Doug Koenig? (Jin)

Wang Yifu... Forever known as "Oxygen boy" by my team mates and I (behind his back of course!)

For the title of "most dramatic shooting moment in Olympics" shouldn't it be Wang Yifu vs Matt Emmons?

Wang's collapse is expected. It surprises me it happened only once in his career.

He has congenital narrowing of his right vertebral artery. When he turn his neck, he basically has only one artery supply to his brain. In a hot day like that day in Atlanta, the "oxygen boy" is cooked !!

Emmons, hit or miss, he is just a classic boy. First-class behavior. He epitomizes sportmanship.

For most of us uninitiated, we muse at top shooter's collapse; not knowing what inner demon they are fighting against.

In Wang Yifu's case, his congenital problem does not give him the luxury of holding the pistol up long. He has only a few seconds before things get fuzzy.

His shooting style is probably the quickest amongst top shooters. Just drop-drop-drop-shoot, almost no follow-through. He can afford only seconds.

That day on the final shot, it was too close, too hot. He held way, way past his normal sequence. You see the collapse afterward.

Oxygen boy needed his oxygen.

j-team wrote:

john bickar wrote:

svensta wrote:Yep that was amazing. Never give up is the message. After that 6.6 the comeback was phenomenal. 3 golds in a row makes Jin probably the best Olympic shooter in history (or close to it).

Greatest (ISU/UIT/ISSF) pistol shooter of all time: Jin Jong-Oh, or Ralf Schumann?

Discuss.

Oh, and show your work.

Schumann. Because he had only RF. Jin has FP and Air (less pressure when you have a second chance!). Also, Schumann had a much longer period of dominace than Jin (so far...). Oh, and I'm a RF shooter so I'm bias!!!

Schumann: http://www.issf-sports.org/athletes/ath ... 1006196201

Jin: http://www.issf-sports.org/athletes/ath ... 2409197901

Equal in Olympic medals, but Schumann is streets ahead in overall career success.

Ralf Schumann definitely takes it on the length of his Club's name:- "Foerderverein Schiesssportzentrum" Suhl versus Jin Jong-Oh's "KT"

john bickar wrote:And to stir the pot further:

Jin or Kim Rhode? (TBD, but Jin slightly)
Jin or Matt Emmons? (Hmmm and TBD)
Jin or Wang Yifu? (Jin)
Jin or Brian Zins? (Jin)
Jin or Doug Koenig? (Jin)

Hmm...Brian Zins has shown a longer period of dominance, but only in one discipline (Bullseye).

Doug Koenig has excelled in a much wider range in disciplines. Lately, his bread and butter has been NRA Action Pistol's Bianchi Cup (17 times!) which emphasizes accuracy with slight variations in target size, distance, position, and movement; however, he's also a former IPSC world champion (and multi-time USPSA national champion and Steel Challenge) which largely speak to fast shooting with centerfire guns involving movement.

But on top of that, he's 21-time Masters Champion, an event incorporates centerfire speed shooting, rimfire precision shooting, and long-range silhouette pistol shooting. In addition, He's also a 19-time Sportsmen's Team Challenge winner, which is all speed based, but incorporates some more precise rimfire pistol and rifle, as well as shotgun clay target shooting (although one could only say he's only one man on the team).

Given the above, I think it's hard to beat his level of ability in several different pistol, rifle, and shotgun disciplines.

sparky wrote:
Doug Koenig has excelled in a much wider range in disciplines. Lately, his bread and butter has been NRA Action Pistol's Bianchi Cup (17 times!) which emphasizes accuracy with slight variations in target size, distance, position, and movement; however, he's also a former IPSC world champion (and multi-time USPSA national champion and Steel Challenge) which largely speak to fast shooting with centerfire guns involving movement.

But on top of that, he's 21-time Masters Champion, an event incorporates centerfire speed shooting, rimfire precision shooting, and long-range silhouette pistol shooting. In addition, He's also a 19-time Sportsmen's Team Challenge winner, which is all speed based, but incorporates some more precise rimfire pistol and rifle, as well as shotgun clay target shooting (although one could only say he's only one man on the team).

Given the above, I think it's hard to beat his level of ability in several different pistol, rifle, and shotgun disciplines.

With all due respect, that's all important stuff in the USA, but largely those disciplines are ignored in the rest of the world (with the exception of IPSC).

sparky wrote:

john bickar wrote:And to stir the pot further:

Jin or Kim Rhode? (TBD, but Jin slightly)
Jin or Matt Emmons? (Hmmm and TBD)
Jin or Wang Yifu? (Jin)
Jin or Brian Zins? (Jin)
Jin or Doug Koenig? (Jin)

Hmm...Brian Zins has shown a longer period of dominance, but only in one discipline (Bullseye).

Doug Koenig has excelled in a much wider range in disciplines. Lately, his bread and butter has been NRA Action Pistol's Bianchi Cup (17 times!) which emphasizes accuracy with slight variations in target size, distance, position, and movement; however, he's also a former IPSC world champion (and multi-time USPSA national champion and Steel Challenge) which largely speak to fast shooting with centerfire guns involving movement.

But on top of that, he's 21-time Masters Champion, an event incorporates centerfire speed shooting, rimfire precision shooting, and long-range silhouette pistol shooting. In addition, He's also a 19-time Sportsmen's Team Challenge winner, which is all speed based, but incorporates some more precise rimfire pistol and rifle, as well as shotgun clay target shooting (although one could only say he's only one man on the team).

Given the above, I think it's hard to beat his level of ability in several different pistol, rifle, and shotgun disciplines.

Counter-points:
1) 350-million competitor pool vs. 7 billion competitor pool
2) The Chinese don't compete in Bianchi Cup, the Masters, or the Sportsman's Team Challenge

But they don't test all 7 billion to pick the best shooter.
I bet the pool of shooters in Asian countries is very much smaller than it is in most others.

Look at Archery in Korea..

http://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/18499167