TargetTalk

I am hearing that this will be the last Olympics for Free Pistol and it will be replaced by Standard Pistol a men's and women's event. Has anybody else heard this? If so, so much for those who think the IOC will add more shooting sports.

Free Pistol - It's a possibility it will go as the IOC want an equal number of Men's and Women's events. Free Pistol seems to be the most likely candidate.

Standard Pistol - Extremely unlikely to be introduced as a mixed individual event. Although the IOC like mixed team events, they do not like mixed individual events.

I don't know who suggested that the IOC would increase the number of shooting events. I don't think that was ever an option.

All of this is driven by the Olympic Agenda 2020.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52162

Maybe they think it was a Free Pistol that held the Olympic athletes at gunpoint while they were robbed in Rio.

Probably was a "free" pistol". Obama sent over some surplus maybe

randy1952 wrote:Has anybody else heard this? If so, so much for those who think the IOC will add more shooting sports.

I'm pretty sure no one thinks the IOC are going to add more shooting medals!

There are 15 shooting events, of which 9 are men's events and 6 are women's. For each of Rifle, Pistol and Shotgun there are 3 men's and two women's events.

The IOC is pressuring all the sporting federations to get as close to gender equality as possible, so clearly something has to give. Shooting has a particular problem in that having an odd number of medals (15 total) it can't do a straight 50/50 - it either needs to develop mixed events, or convince the IOC that an 8/7 split is acceptable. The odds of them getting time and space for a 16th medal event lie somewhere beyond the odds of Obama publicly endorsing Trump for President.

To that end, the 3 excess men's-only events (Free Pistol, Prone Rifle and Double Trap shotgun) are all coming under enormous scrutiny as the obvious candidates to be replaced with a mixed or team event.

From a standpoint of worldwide firearms laws and expendiency, it would be the most important goal to get Centrefire Pistol into the Olympic Games. If necessary, even as male / female pair, while then dropping .22 sport pistol female.
Alas, any new discipline will necessarily have to displace at least one old one. Objectively, CF Pistol is more "important" for the shooting community than RFP. Or FP. But I would be sorry to lose either, especially since FP is the oldest discipline shot in very little changed continuation, while RFP changed much over the times.

Alexander

Alexander wrote:From a standpoint of worldwide firearms laws and expendiency, it would be the most important goal to get Centrefire Pistol into the Olympic Games. If necessary, even as male / female pair, while then dropping .22 sport pistol female.
Alas, any new discipline will necessarily have to displace at least one old one. Objectively, CF Pistol is more "important" for the shooting community than RFP. Or FP. But I would be sorry to lose either, especially since FP is the oldest discipline shot in very little changed continuation, while RFP changed much over the times.

Alexander

I believe the decision has already been made that FP is being replaced by Standard Pistol.

randy1952 wrote:I believe the decision has already been made that FP is being replaced by Standard Pistol.

As a historian, I would be sorry indeed, because of the legacy and tradition. As an active shooter (note ambiguity in Americanese? replace expression? no !!), I think it is a good move.

Aleaxnder (loves standard pistol, wishes he were better in it)

randy1952 wrote: I believe the decision has already been made that FP is being replaced by Standard Pistol.

Where did you hear that from?

How would that help to balance the the Men/Women events?

David Levene wrote:

randy1952 wrote: I believe the decision has already been made that FP is being replaced by Standard Pistol.

Where did you hear that from?

How would that help to balance the the Men/Women events?

I got the information from someone who is connected with our National Development Group. It is not official yet, but they expect the official word on what they want to do will probably be within one to two months. I didn't ask for the full details on how they are going to do the change. It sounds like the pressure was coming from the IOC who wants balanced events but whether that means a mix of men and women on a team or separate men and women's teams I have no idea.

randy1952 wrote:I believe the decision has already been made that FP is being replaced by Standard Pistol.

I doubt anything will be "replaced" with anything else. It will be a sinking lid policy when it comes to shooting events in the Olympics.

I guess I am idiot: I would have made all the events open to both sexes and got rid of the male/female dichotomy. Problem solved. Hell, it probably would have made room for the one event that could actually have drawn a TV audience: 300 meter rifle.

mbradley wrote:I guess I am idiot: I would have made all the events open to both sexes and got rid of the male/female dichotomy. Problem solved. Hell, it probably would have made room for the one event that could actually have drawn a TV audience: 300 meter rifle.

How any time have people suggested that they add mixed individual events. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

What do you propose? Reserving half the spots in the final to each gender and giving 1 1/2 medals each!

The IOC want gender equality, not mixed events which will mostly be dominated by men.

Why will 300m draw a TV audience? It looks exactly like 50m rifle but noisier and with a bit of recoil.

No, you don't reserve spots. Everyone competes against each other, just like in the past. It's all in how it's presented, "...and now we switch coverage to the only Olympic event in which women compete on the same field as the men!" As for women not being able to compete, not according to the scores. They may not win every event, but their scores are competitive.

I addressed how 300 meter rifle is the natural discipline for TV in another post. You can look it up. In the meantime, the IOC is going to destroy this sport.

For the general format of mixed team events for Rifle and Pistol I would be surprised if you have to look much beyond the AP50 and AR 50 events held at the European Championships this year.

http://www.esc-shooting.org/video/view/ ... inals-131/

http://www.esc-shooting.org/video/view/ ... inals-130/

90% of the sports in the Olympics are not spectator sports in any sense of the word. Broadcasting the games is not about televising a spectacle like football, but rather about telling a story. That is the reason you see so many sob-sister back story vignettes during the games. Paired 10 meter like the above could work, but it is very difficult to paint a picture to the audience because the scale and dimensions are hard to relate. A discipline like 300 meter rifle is quite exotic to most people, allowing multiple entry points for backstory video.

mbradley wrote:As for women not being able to compete, not according to the scores. They may not win every event, but their scores are competitive.

Ok, we've done this before but just to bash the head against a brick wall some more:

Using the results from the Baku WC just completed (events that are comparable) the finalists would be:

3P Rifle: 7 men 1 woman
Air Rifle: 5 men 3 women
Skeet: 6 men 0 women (or if the top women could beat 6 men in a shoot off maybe 4 men 2 women)
Trap: 5 men 1 woman (or if the top women could beat 7 men in a shoot off maybe 4 men 2 women)
Air Pistol: 6 men 2 women

The IOC want equality, not unity!!!!!!

That sure looks like they are able to compete to me. There is no reason to think they would be represented in the finals in equal numbers, but they still are competitive.

OK.

j-team wrote:

mbradley wrote: Air Pistol: 6 men 2 women

In sports pistol 25m men would probably take all 8 places. In 25m sportspistol the rapid fire shooters shoot 300/300 in timed series and lose points only in precision. Ekomiv, Klimov, Reitz, Quiquampoix and always a Chinese athlete will all make the final.


These numbers could of course be purely due to lower participation of women in shooting. Which means men and women are to be kept separately. Otherwise it will only hurt shooting sports, demotivate many athletes and make medals only a distant dream.