TargetTalk

Many here know I espouse buying a SSP or even a FWB 65 rather than getting into the PCP expense and headaches.

After looking at many posts, I have found poster after poster saying they were shooting just as well with these guns after dropping big bucks on the latest foo-foo machine in spite of my say-so.

That's OK, why should you believe this old fart.

So I say Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah!

If you have anything to say but what you're puking up off the web I'd like to hear it.

Agreed

But there is the psychological factor - if you believe your current gun is holding you back - it(you) will. I have seen several people shoot much better after getting a new gun and they believe it is that gun making a difference. Then they pick up the old gun and start shooting just as well as they are with the new one!

99% of the time a new gun forces them back to the fundamentals and that's why they improve.

Your confidence should be in yourself not your equipment.

- Dave
just my twopence.

Please suggest a SSP (other than the Izh 46M) that you highly recommend and is currently in production.
I happen to (only) own a 46M but I don't begrudge anyone else the right/option/privilege to buy something else if they want to. Perhaps if Steyr, FWB, Walther and Pardini currently offered a fine SSP you'd have a good point. But if you don't want to buy a used product via sending money to an individual you don't know except as who they claim to be on the internet…you don't have a hell of a lot of options do you?

toddinjax wrote:.... Please suggest a SSP (other than the Izh 46M) that you highly recommend and is currently in production.…you don't have a hell of a lot of options do you?

Option: the FAS6004
[previously known as the FAS604]

http://store.chiappafirearms.com/produc ... ch-pp.html

Have you tried shooting one of these in a 60 shot comp ? They are very awkward to cock and load while maintaining a side on stance.
Also the FWB 65, a competitor in the next firing point to me at a comp was having a hell of a job cocking and loading and enroached on my space while he put the gun on the bench to pull the lever back.

I'm still waiting to hear a convincing reason why someone shouldn't buy top end as their first gun if that's what they want.

It's simple: they don't need it. I handled and dry fired the FAS 604 yesterday. It's a very nice gun, but very low powered.

Want one?: http://store.chiappafirearms.com/produc ... rd-pp.html

Kinda cheap right? It's good enough for the likes of you!

David Levene wrote:I'm still waiting to hear a convincing reason why someone shouldn't buy top end as their first gun if that's what they want.

Nothing wrong with it if that's what they want - The first time I shot a match grade AP (IZH) was on a Wednesday and on the following Monday I ordered and LP10e from Pilkguns which was delivered on Wednesday exactly one week later.

I wouldn't have done it different. That was 16 months ago I'm shooting in the 540's with an occasional 550. Could I be at the same level with an IZH yep maybe but I didn't want to go that route.

- Dave

Rover wrote:It's simple: they don't need it.

What has "need" got to do with anything.

Why does anyone need nice clothes, or pictures on the wall in their house, or any of the other things that aren't necessary for the preservation of life.

It's all about "want" not "need".

Rover's endless rants have a point, if a very limited one. As he says, any decently made SSP (FWB 1xx series, Pardini K58, Baikal 46m, etc.) will allow excellent scores provided the shooter is disciplined and at least a bit talented. But that's the full extent of validity for his point. The endless lectures and even insults thrown out at those who prefer to buy a 'fancy' PCP come from some sort of internal bitterness, a habit perhaps, which Rover likes to exercise in these pages. And there's nothing wrong with being a curmudgeon. If that's your thing. But after a while it does become tiresome, and really, as others have said, how does it hurt anyone if lots of people decide to buy $2,000+ toys and then fail to use them properly? Any skin off your nose, Rover?

There are loads of idiots from Wall Street or wherever the big money gets made and shown off, who routinely buy more than one luxury car worth hundreds of thousands of dollars each. It's crazy, sure, but how does it hurt anyone? I'd argue that it was the wealth-harvesting in the first place which caused the only serious harm in that equation. Once stolen, the money is basically there to spend on whatever rich folks want to spend it on, and the rest of us can go whistle for all they care. Do you go on fancy car forums and tell everyone they should drive a Toyota Corolla, because hey, they're damn good cars? If so... well, I guess that's your thing. But really, haven't you a more important piece of work to chase after than lecturing again and again about how everyone should be using out of production airguns? And no, the FAS 6004 doesn't really count. As with its predecessor, it's an under-powered pistol which is awkward for weaker/smaller shooters to cock, leaving sometimes difficult to read holes in target paper. Perhaps they should make special sharp-edges pellets just for 604/6004 shooters?

Rover, one 2-part question: will you provide the needed anti-inflammatories and, more important will you endure the side effects from them that 2 old & damaged rotator cuffs would demand if I were to go back to a PCP?

Didn't think so. Your shoes must be very comfortable. Maybe we can all walk a mile in them sometime.

Gerard wrote:Rover's endless rants have a point, if a very limited one. As he says, any decently made SSP (FWB 1xx series, Pardini K58, Baikal 46m, etc.) will allow excellent scores provided the shooter is disciplined and at least a bit talented. But that's the full extent of validity for his point. The endless lectures and even insults thrown out at those who prefer to buy a 'fancy' PCP come from some sort of internal bitterness, a habit perhaps, which Rover likes to exercise in these pages. And there's nothing wrong with being a curmudgeon. If that's your thing. But after a while it does become tiresome, and really, as others have said, how does it hurt anyone if lots of people decide to buy $2,000+ toys and then fail to use them properly? Any skin off your nose, Rover?

There are loads of idiots from Wall Street or wherever the big money gets made and shown off, who routinely buy more than one luxury car worth hundreds of thousands of dollars each. It's crazy, sure, but how does it hurt anyone? I'd argue that it was the wealth-harvesting in the first place which caused the only serious harm in that equation. Once stolen, the money is basically there to spend on whatever rich folks want to spend it on, and the rest of us can go whistle for all they care. Do you go on fancy car forums and tell everyone they should drive a Toyota Corolla, because hey, they're damn good cars? If so... well, I guess that's your thing. But really, haven't you a more important piece of work to chase after than lecturing again and again about how everyone should be using out of production airguns? And no, the FAS 6004 doesn't really count. As with its predecessor, it's an under-powered pistol which is awkward for weaker/smaller shooters to cock, leaving sometimes difficult to read holes in target paper. Perhaps they should make special sharp-edges pellets just for 604/6004 shooters?

My hat is off to you, sir.

Oh God, how these whines have made me smile!

Anti-inflamatories, sore feet? What the hell are you doing in this game anyway?

"Rover's endless rants have a point, if a very limited one. As he says, any decently made SSP (FWB 1xx series, Pardini K58, Baikal 46m, etc.) will allow excellent scores provided the shooter is disciplined and at least a bit talented. But that's the full extent of validity for his point."

Yes, that's all I could possibly desire.

Since I own a FAS, there is one thing I learned quickly, how to push the barrel back into position without pinching your hand. Placing a pellet into the barrel is a bear, it's tight.

Anti-inflamatories, sore feet? What the hell are you doing in this game anyway?

My feet are perfectly fine, thank you. What am I doing in the game? The best I Goddamn can, you insolent twit! I'm sorry I don't measure up to your standards of physical perfection, and I'm sure you're the spittin' image of Michelangelo's David.

I enjoy every aspect of air pistol competition to the extent my approaching 70 year-old body parts permit, and I'd regret having to give it up because a my-way-or-the-highway know-it-all insists I use the pistol HE specifies instead of another one that the rules permit.

I wonder what else gets the know-it-all on his high (rocking)horse: electronic sights, eyeglasses? Care to elaborate?

Rover wrote: I handled and dry fired the FAS 604 yesterday. It's a very nice gun, but very low powered.

Want one?: http://store.chiappafirearms.com/produc ... rd-pp.html

Does anyone know if the new FAS 6004 can be dry-fired? I had the impression that neither the 604 nor the 6004 could be.

And does anyone know if the new gun still has a trigger stop? The pictures do not show anything in the area where the trigger stop was in the old model.

TIA

You can dry fire if you lift the barrel just high enough you will hear a click setting the trigger then placing the barrel back in position. The stop is located in the back of the trigger guard. this is a 604 really doubt FAS changed much except for the numbers, 6004.

About the FAS 6004 and dry firing:
Fwiw, the instruction manual at Chiappa doesn't mention a dry fire mode and when I contacted the mfr. they told me it can't df w/o being pressurized. On the other hand, maybe John Foster's method will work with the 6004 too.

I just got back from a day at the range and read the above comments regarding how challenging the FAS is for some of you. I've owned several of the 604's since the mid-80's [I'm and old guy, too] and never had such issues with this pistol. In fact, I've used the 604 to train women who typically do not have the upper body/arm strength of the men shooters. Once they understand the simple charging and loading technique they do quite well it. They like the 604 for its smaller/lighter mass and easy handling compared to the Izzy. If you guys can't handle a 604, maybe some time at the gym is needed so you can toughen up and gain some dexterity. Really, gents, these complaints are a bit absurd.

wow I just looked up the price of a fas 6004, they are just about as expensive as a second had decent pcp.

I wonder if a fas has ever shot a good score?