I had a bad thing happen with my Baer Wadcutter, a case split while shooting and it's off to Baer to be looked at but I'm afraid the frame is toast.
I have been contemplating a 45 revolver and wondering what thoughts are. I owned a S&W 686 in 357 but sold it because I have small hands and the reach to the trigger was too long for m.
Thoughts on 45 revolvers vs 1911's? Thanks.
Which 45 Revolver to Buy ?
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, Isabel1130
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chiltech500
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:13 am
- Location: North of Allentown, PA
Revolver Choice
Greetings,
I purchased an S&W 625-4 with the 5" barrel. It shoots inside the ten ring at 50 yards with a heavy X count using the H&G #78 bullet and 4.3 grains of WST from the Random Rest.
Back when I could shoot, I fired 2603 and 2607 shooting the revolver for the 45 stage.
After shooting, I disassemble the pistol and place the dirty parts in an Ultrasonic Cleaner. Being Stainless, there is no worry about the bluing disappearing.
Last, I use an Outers Foul Out to remove any Lead fouling from the barrel and forcing cone.
For convenience, purchase some 6 round full moon clips and the gadget called "The DeMooner". I load up all my ammo prior to the match and carry it to the range in an empty shot bag. Place the fired cases and clips in the bag as you shoot.
I purchased an S&W 625-4 with the 5" barrel. It shoots inside the ten ring at 50 yards with a heavy X count using the H&G #78 bullet and 4.3 grains of WST from the Random Rest.
Back when I could shoot, I fired 2603 and 2607 shooting the revolver for the 45 stage.
After shooting, I disassemble the pistol and place the dirty parts in an Ultrasonic Cleaner. Being Stainless, there is no worry about the bluing disappearing.
Last, I use an Outers Foul Out to remove any Lead fouling from the barrel and forcing cone.
For convenience, purchase some 6 round full moon clips and the gadget called "The DeMooner". I load up all my ammo prior to the match and carry it to the range in an empty shot bag. Place the fired cases and clips in the bag as you shoot.
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chiltech500
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:13 am
- Location: North of Allentown, PA
Thanks so much for the tips and info.
I am very much hoping my Les Baer is not toast, but I have reconciled myself mentally to that idea. One of my concerns with switching to a revolver is the trigger and grip differences from 1911's. Currently I am shooting a 22 conversion on my Dan Wesson frame to be consistent with the Les Baer 45.
I have only shot 2 / 45 revolvers and both 1 shot each ! I liked both. One was a colt with their ammo and the other was a S&W with a 4" barrel, I'm sure it was the 625 because the gent said it is the only 45 they make.
I checked the S&W website and they seem to only make a 4" barrel. Now I am 100% certain that gun would be more accurate than I will ever be. I have to find a dealer to try out the trigger reach and how comfortable I am with the grip.
I am very much hoping my Les Baer is not toast, but I have reconciled myself mentally to that idea. One of my concerns with switching to a revolver is the trigger and grip differences from 1911's. Currently I am shooting a 22 conversion on my Dan Wesson frame to be consistent with the Les Baer 45.
I have only shot 2 / 45 revolvers and both 1 shot each ! I liked both. One was a colt with their ammo and the other was a S&W with a 4" barrel, I'm sure it was the 625 because the gent said it is the only 45 they make.
I checked the S&W website and they seem to only make a 4" barrel. Now I am 100% certain that gun would be more accurate than I will ever be. I have to find a dealer to try out the trigger reach and how comfortable I am with the grip.
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chiltech500
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:13 am
- Location: North of Allentown, PA
Thanks Rover, I hear you. I have practiced for over a year with 1911's, though I am not happy with my results, I would expect the revolver to be a challenge training to be competitive, especially for rapid fire.
I am very much hoping my Les Baer wad gun isn't shot. If it's fixable I would sure like to have it lose a little weight with that giant scope mount that holds (for now) a tiny Burris reflex sight.
I am very much hoping my Les Baer wad gun isn't shot. If it's fixable I would sure like to have it lose a little weight with that giant scope mount that holds (for now) a tiny Burris reflex sight.
Since you purchased the 45 wadcutter, I assume you are or want to compete in bullseye matches. If this is the case, don't buy another production line gun. It really does not matter what Les Baer says, their guns are not true Bullseye quality guns. Same for any of the other companies that mass produce guns. Find yourself a gunsmith who builds true bullseye quality guns. The top shooter will not have one of these guns. If they do, then most likely they had it re-worked by a gunsmith. If completion is not your goal, then these guns will be great for you. As far as the revolver vs 1911 style, it's really your preference. If your going to compete, then go with the 1911.
Just my 2 cents.
Scott
Just my 2 cents.
Scott
Hi,
Lots of great advice already given.
Is the incident related to your Baer 1911 a direct bearing upon your thoughts concerning the revolver?
S&W 45 revolvers are the predominant, but not exclusive, option. There's always Colt, who made some nice target models back in the day. There are some nice customized pieces out there, such as Colts converted by Pachmayr or King's Gunsight Co.
Be advised that S&W has always had trouble delivering a consistently accurate 45 ACP revolver. Issues include cylinder throats of inconsistent sizes, as small as .450" to as much as .457". The former can be reamed, but the latter are useless. For years, the 25-2 enjoyed a fine reputation in printed sources. Actual experience, due to the above mentioned problems, often proved otherwise.
Barrels can also be a problem, frequently due to the nature of the rifling or depth of cut. If encountered, this is more problematic with lead bullets.
Since you mentioned trigger reach issues related to the 686 (L Frame), you will only find the problem worse with the S&W 45 on an N frame. (Custom smiths can rework the S&W grip frame to smaller sizes.)
Jim
Lots of great advice already given.
Is the incident related to your Baer 1911 a direct bearing upon your thoughts concerning the revolver?
S&W 45 revolvers are the predominant, but not exclusive, option. There's always Colt, who made some nice target models back in the day. There are some nice customized pieces out there, such as Colts converted by Pachmayr or King's Gunsight Co.
Be advised that S&W has always had trouble delivering a consistently accurate 45 ACP revolver. Issues include cylinder throats of inconsistent sizes, as small as .450" to as much as .457". The former can be reamed, but the latter are useless. For years, the 25-2 enjoyed a fine reputation in printed sources. Actual experience, due to the above mentioned problems, often proved otherwise.
Barrels can also be a problem, frequently due to the nature of the rifling or depth of cut. If encountered, this is more problematic with lead bullets.
Since you mentioned trigger reach issues related to the 686 (L Frame), you will only find the problem worse with the S&W 45 on an N frame. (Custom smiths can rework the S&W grip frame to smaller sizes.)
Jim
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chiltech500
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:13 am
- Location: North of Allentown, PA
Thanks so much for the information. I am deterred from a revolver and just as well.
I have begun competing but at 59 years old I don't expect to ever become good enough to warrant a top notch custom gun. I am realistic about my hand/eye coordination and abilities - example I have practiced at 25 yards with my 22 for almost a year and my best scores are in the low to mid 80's.
I am thinking I would be better off buying a SA Range Officer and having the slide/frame and barrel/bushing and trigger done by a competent gunsmith. That would probably put me in the cost neighborhood of a new Baer Wadcutter. I will say the barrel/bushing fit on the Baer was very tight.
I have begun competing but at 59 years old I don't expect to ever become good enough to warrant a top notch custom gun. I am realistic about my hand/eye coordination and abilities - example I have practiced at 25 yards with my 22 for almost a year and my best scores are in the low to mid 80's.
I am thinking I would be better off buying a SA Range Officer and having the slide/frame and barrel/bushing and trigger done by a competent gunsmith. That would probably put me in the cost neighborhood of a new Baer Wadcutter. I will say the barrel/bushing fit on the Baer was very tight.
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chiltech500
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:13 am
- Location: North of Allentown, PA
Thanks for asking Jack. As a preface, I reload my 45 and 9mm rounds.
A couple of weeks ago during practice there was an inordinate bang, my grips split off the pistol, the slide was jammed and a small fragment of something caused a scratch on my nose that bled for a bit. It was either a double load or the case separated/broke/split. I lean towards the latter because the case was stuck in the throat of the barrel and parts of it were missing.
I had to pull the destroyed mag out with a screw driver through the middle of it because it wouldn’t release. I used a wooden dowel and brass squib rod to tap out the imbedded case. It took tapping the slide to unstick it from the frame – it was stuck so that you could see a part of the ejection port open. I cleaned the whole gun and inspected for damage. There was none visible to me but, the slide would get stuck at the point just before battery.
I posted the above on a couple of other websites I frequent and someone said most likely the frame and/or slide was “sprung”. Queried about the “sprung” this was the response: “Sprung is a fancy way of saying bent. My guess is the frame bent outwards in the general area where the case rupture occurred due to the pressure escaping. This may have affected the slide as well. “
I have sent this gun to Baer for examination and hopefully repair, though I am not holding my breath.
A couple of weeks ago during practice there was an inordinate bang, my grips split off the pistol, the slide was jammed and a small fragment of something caused a scratch on my nose that bled for a bit. It was either a double load or the case separated/broke/split. I lean towards the latter because the case was stuck in the throat of the barrel and parts of it were missing.
I had to pull the destroyed mag out with a screw driver through the middle of it because it wouldn’t release. I used a wooden dowel and brass squib rod to tap out the imbedded case. It took tapping the slide to unstick it from the frame – it was stuck so that you could see a part of the ejection port open. I cleaned the whole gun and inspected for damage. There was none visible to me but, the slide would get stuck at the point just before battery.
I posted the above on a couple of other websites I frequent and someone said most likely the frame and/or slide was “sprung”. Queried about the “sprung” this was the response: “Sprung is a fancy way of saying bent. My guess is the frame bent outwards in the general area where the case rupture occurred due to the pressure escaping. This may have affected the slide as well. “
I have sent this gun to Baer for examination and hopefully repair, though I am not holding my breath.
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chiltech500
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:13 am
- Location: North of Allentown, PA
My eyes told me there might be a slight bend outwards at the shooters end of the frame - there the slide made contact with the frame preventing the slide from travelling backwards further.
As I mentioned earlier, if you envision an explosion where the gasses were not directed fully down the barrel but escaped from the side of the separated/split cartridge , the slide starts going backwards as in a normal shot but then gets stuck because the frame is bent into it.... envision the top edge of the frame bending outwards into the slide. I believe that is what happened.
I am hoping Baer has repaired something like this before.
As I mentioned earlier, if you envision an explosion where the gasses were not directed fully down the barrel but escaped from the side of the separated/split cartridge , the slide starts going backwards as in a normal shot but then gets stuck because the frame is bent into it.... envision the top edge of the frame bending outwards into the slide. I believe that is what happened.
I am hoping Baer has repaired something like this before.