TargetTalk

I've been shooting pistol match for quite some time, mostly in ISSF events, lately, I would like to give NRA bullseye pistol a try, .22s I got a few, also have a stock Mk IV series 70 Colt 1911 in .45 ACP, previous owner have installed a fitted barrel bushing and done a trigger job, it consistently shot 2-21/2" group @ 25 yds with various handloads.

I know this isn't the level of accuracy required for a competitive bullseye pistol and being a gun crank/ tinkerer I would like to use the 1911 as bases for an accurate bullseye gun, My question is: whats the difference between a hardball gun vs a wardcutter gun? Is it the barrel? mag?...etc, what is the advantages or lack of one type or the other? Will it be possible to built/assemble one gun for using both kind of ammo and achieve match grade accuracy?

I intended to use reloads and red dot sight for this pistol, please excuse me if this topic has been discussed before, all answers will be read with appreciations.

For NRA Bullseye shooting, you will rarely need anything but a "wad" gun. It is set up to shoot the lightest possible accurate loads for out to 50 yards. The point of this is to minimize recoil recovery time and avoid beating yourself up. This is mainly a function of the springs used and the handloads (which should shoot under 2" @ 50 yds.).

A hardball gun is used for full power military loads (often supplied by the match). I think it must be used with iron sights, as opposed to a Red Dot on a "wad" gun. I personally wouldn't bother with one, but many do. (But then, I don't shoot .45 any more, having gone entirely to ISSF, except for an occasional .22 Bullseye match.)

Rover wrote:For NRA Bullseye shooting, you will rarely need anything but a "wad" gun. It is set up to shoot the lightest possible accurate loads for out to 50 yards. The point of this is to minimize recoil recovery time and avoid beating yourself up. This is mainly a function of the springs used and the handloads.

A hardball gun is used for full power military loads (often supplied by the match). I think it must be used with iron sights, as opposed to a Red Dot on a "wad" gun. I personally wouldn't bother with one, but many do. (But then, I don't shoot .45 any more, having gone entirely to Olympic, except for an occasional .22 Bullseye match.)

Yes, Rover has whimped out on us, but he is a fine Free Pistol shooter.


A wad gun has many fewer restrictions than a ball gun that is set up to be Service Pistol legal. I suggest going to the CMP web site and checking the service pistol rules.

Bullseye, is governed by the NRA, and they have the rules on Conventional pistol on their web site.

They don't issue ammo anymore at CMP matches, You need to shoot either a 1911 in 45 caliber, or a Beretta M9 (9mm) for Service Pistol.

" Will it be possible to built/assemble one gun for using both kind of ammo and achieve match grade accuracy? "


The short answer is yes. If your gun complies with the CMP rules for Service pistol, it can also be used for bullseye. It is even possible to have holes drilled for mounting optics, and still be service pistol legal.


Tony, where are you located? I know a lot of people that would love to help you get started in Bullseye.

Isabel1130 wrote: The short answer is yes. If your gun complies with the CMP rules for Service pistol, it can also be used for bullseye. It is even possible to have holes drilled for mounting optics, and still be service pistol legal..

I shoot with two new shooters that are doing just that. They both shoot iron sights only. The one downside is the 4lb trigger requirement for CMP Service Pistol, another is the stiffer spring for heavy loads you may not be able to shoot really light loads without feeding issues. BUT if you learn to shoot a hardball gun well when you do set up a wad gun it will seem like shooting a dream.

So a " Ball " gun is basically a service pistol vs a " Ward " gun being a bullseye target pistol, got it.

Isabel, I'm in Ontario, Canada. Been a rifle shooter most of my life, in my advancing years, tired of hauling tons of equipments whenever I go shooting, turn to pistol shooting and carry one box instead,
although still shot some local smallbore league matches occasionally.

Here in the frozen north, ISSF Standard Pistol; CF and Air Pistol are popular with the bullseye crowd, there are also a good number of shooters into the " Canadian 1800 " match, which is basically the NRA match shot with 2 guns, a CF and .22 instead of 3, starting last year a local club is running a monthly 1800 match. I've shot it a couple of times using my .32 for the CF portion, but now I would like to get my .45 into the act, hence the post.

I thanks everyone answer to this thread, being Canadian, I'm not familiar with some American terms, such as " long line " I take it means 50 yds. or " leg match "...etc.

I've been to Camp Perry a few times as a rifle shooter, perhaps I'll see some of you in the future at Perry carrying a pistol box instead.

Yes, except it's called a "Wad" gun, short for "Wadcutter" since the typical bullet shot is a semi-wadcutter (or SWC).

How long does it take to change a spring for liter loads and a 4 pound trigger is more a problem in your head than your finger. A clean trigger is more importian than the weight.

Peter B wrote:How long does it take to change a spring for liter loads and a 4 pound trigger is more a problem in your head than your finger. A clean trigger is more importian than the weight.

It depends on how many parts you want to mess with and how you have your gun set up. Can be changed in approximately two minutes if you know what you are doing, and are familiar with the set up of your gun.

Different procedure depending on whether you have a short guide rod, or a full length one.


I agree somewhat with your analysis, but the average scores are lower at the long line with the ball guns, even for the high masters.

I shoot about the same or a little better with mine however, the LEG match is usually after the 2700 and my trigger finger is well warmed up. Also I seem to shoot my wide trigger on my Beretta a little better than a narrow one.


Good triggering is more of a factor than the actual trigger. Practice with a crappy one, and use good technique, you will be surprised how fast your scores go up.