TargetTalk

Can someone please provide a link to the DSB rules that relate to electronic target systems? I've visited the site with a on-line translator, but no luck.

TIA

Stan

What kind of rules are you looking for (subject)? I can read German and translate for you what you need.

I'm looking for the rules that address cross fired shots on electronic targets.

It's article 0.11.4.2 (page 38).

It states that crossfires during competition ar consired as a 'failed shot', no points given.
Crossfire during sighters won't result in any deduction.
If shooter A (sighters) crossfires on target shooter B (competition) shooter A will have a two point deduction.

I can't find any rule that states a difference in penalties between papertarget or electronic scoring systems.

BM wrote:It's article 0.11.4.2 (page 38).

It states that crossfires during competition ar consired as a 'failed shot', no points given.
Crossfire during sighters won't result in any deduction.
If shooter A (sighters) crossfires on target shooter B (competition) shooter A will have a two point deduction.

I can't find any rule that states a difference in penalties between papertarget or electronic scoring systems.

Hi BM

Thank you for this info. Do the rules specify how the crossfired shot is determined?

Stan

I only found one paragraph about crossfires and although not exactly stated like this it gives me the impression the shooter has to claim a crossfire on his/her target. The 'observer' will then act according to the rules.
So the shooter has to claim a crossfire, most likely the shooter that 'receives' the shot and not the shooter that 'lost' his shot. But no clear rule on that, they only wrote how to act when it occurs, not how to determine.

Can someone please describe the steps an ISSF Range Officer takes when a shooter claims that his electronic target has received a crossfired shot? In other words, does the RO simply make note of it and then go through the process of determining the crossfired shot after the relay is complete? Or, is there any disruption of the relay at the time the crossfired shot is claimed?

TIA

Stan

ISSF Rules 6.11.8.6 and further:

If an athlete wishes to disclaim a shot on his target, he must report this immediately to a Range Officer.
If the Range Officer confirms that the athlete did not fire the disputed shot(s), he must make the necessary entry on a Range Incident Report and on the Range Register and the shot must be annulled.
If the Range Officer cannot confirm beyond all reasonable doubt that the athlete did not fire the disputed shot(s), the shot(s) must be credited to the athlete and must be so recorded.
The following must be considered as reasons to justify the annulment of a shot:
a) If a range official or Register Keeper confirms by his observation of the athlete and the target that the athlete did not fire the shot;
b) If a missed shot is reported by another athlete or Register Keeper or other range official at approximately the same time, and from within the neighboring two or three firing points; and
c) When using 300m EST, crossfires should not register on the recipient’s target, but an indication will be received at the control center. The firer, whose target does not receive the expected shot, will be given a miss (zero) and an indication that he has cross-fired.

BM wrote:ISSF Rules 6.11.8.6 and further:

If an athlete wishes to disclaim a shot on his target, he must report this immediately to a Range Officer.
If the Range Officer confirms that the athlete did not fire the disputed shot(s), he must make the necessary entry on a Range Incident Report and on the Range Register and the shot must be annulled.
If the Range Officer cannot confirm beyond all reasonable doubt that the athlete did not fire the disputed shot(s), the shot(s) must be credited to the athlete and must be so recorded.
The following must be considered as reasons to justify the annulment of a shot:
a) If a range official or Register Keeper confirms by his observation of the athlete and the target that the athlete did not fire the shot;
b) If a missed shot is reported by another athlete or Register Keeper or other range official at approximately the same time, and from within the neighboring two or three firing points; and
c) When using 300m EST, crossfires should not register on the recipient’s target, but an indication will be received at the control center. The firer, whose target does not receive the expected shot, will be given a miss (zero) and an indication that he has cross-fired.

Hi BM,

Thanks for the reply. I saw this in the ISSF rules, too. My question was more about whether or not the whole relay is disrupted or only the athletes involved in the crossfire.

Stan

If it's just one range the relay will continue; why delay other 75 ranges?

I think it happens seldom during competitions in ISSF. And if the shooter receives a 10 as crossfire they usually won't disclaim it!

IPshooter wrote:...My question was more about whether or not the whole relay is disrupted or only the athletes involved in the crossfire.
Stan

If the log print, target face, control sheet and backing target needs to be inspected, this is done at the completion of the stage/match.
Often the crossfired shot can be identified by the time of the shot; an advantage of EST.

In the old days at Atlanta we had shot sensors that indicated that a shot had been fired on the lane and about .2 sec later the target needed to receive a shot. If no shot was recorded on the target, the central ranking system would receive an indication of "hidden miss." Then the central ranking officer would print out the logs for the two lanes on either side of the hidden miss to determine where the shot had gone.

Now, we don't have the shot sensors. And as Spencer has said, we can still use the logs of the adjacent points to determine where the shot may have originated.

Unless the backer is at least 1 meter away from the back of the electronic target, it is almost impossible to determine cross shots by backing targets.

And, as Spenser has said, it doesn't hold up the entire line, but may disrupt shooting on the affected points for a few minutes.

What is really tough is when a shooter sees a "Stop" on his monitor and still has one round left in his ammo block. He has no idea when the cross shot may have happened. But, obviously it did happen. Again, the logs can be printed and checked. If, at some point in the match, two shots are recorded only 3 or 4 seconds apart, this would indicate that one of the shots was crossfired onto the target.

Thanks for all the replies.

Stan