npa in standing

[richrd]

Ways of the rifle and some I shoot with emphasize that the feet be either in line with target or the rear foot slightly back from the target line.

This puts my npa way out to the right. Am I the only one?

Do I use my open stance or follow the book, I;m getting left flyers.

thanks

[redschietti]

Top shooters in my observation have their feet in line or left or right. Im sure they must have figured out what is best for them. Hips, shoulders and gun always seem to be parallel though. And the gun over the ball of the foot.

[TerryKuz]

My initial thought reading this thread is the impact of the NPA on the spine. Naturally NPA is where the body feels no extreme muscle tension to reach a steady hold. If you are out of NPA, certainly you will had a tough time with the hold and fliers, but more importantly you could have spine compression problems. So in some way, out of equilibrium holds could be physically dangerous. Being able to see the position by mirrors or pictures is cool, and so is a plumb bob on the barrel to the ball of the foot. Due to build, and the complexity of the physical foundation there can be variance to the position. Again, my opinion, or maybe what is true most of the time, is a text book stance is best. Stances that are described as "wide", "twisted" "high", "low, or rifle adjustments that are far from neutral, will probably clash NPA and a healthy position. I think the "feel" of offhand is first sensed in the left elbow to left hip stress. The sense should be straight down the hip with no tension. The left leg should support most of the load, and the right leg helps the load go through the left leg. Certainly repeatable left elbow position of the hip is critical. My fliers usually go to 3:00, and are due to my elbow too far left on my hip, making the rifle swing right as release tension as I fire, or torquing the grip as I fire. Of course elbow position too far to the right also causes drift to the 3:00. Easier said than done.

[Pat McCoy]

NPA is determined very much by body shape. A skinny person may have a closed stance, and many of us carrying extra body weigth use an open stance.

NPA will change are your muscles warm up and relax, and again later in the match as your muscles tighten.

[justadude]

you also need to consider the location of the left upper arm and elbow on the rib cage and left hip bone. If the arm rests more on the front of the chest then the NPA will tend to the right for a given foot position. If the arm is on the side of the chest more in line with the shoulders then the NPA will tend toward the left.

Here again, there is no one size fits all answer, the location of the arm needs to be comfortable, neither stretched too far outside or tucked too far inside. It is paramount that it be very consistent from shot to shot.

While, overall body type, weight and size of the ribcage will have a bearing on where the arm is most comfortable and NPA, my guess from what you describe, is that your arm is tucked into more the front of your chest. It is likely that by moving your elbow out, a little to the left, you can get an NPA that is on the vertical center of the target with your feet in the prescribed location.

Now will this produce the best scores for you? You will have to judge after some development time.

'Dude

[RobinC]

I agree with 'Dude and Terry, to keep the hip stability it is advisable to maintain the hips (and then the feet) in line with the target or with the rear foot slightly drawn behind you. An open stance can produce instability, although there are always top level exceptions, for the majority of people it is best avoided.
The left elbow is almost certainly the culprit in your case, one of our mathmeticians has calculated that 0.2 of a degree of angular change will cross the whole scoring rings from one side to the other so left elbow placement is critical and it can be very dificult to judge that accurately. It also changes with tension and fatique so you need to check your zero every shot and be very precise and critical on your placement of the elbow for every shot.
Good Shooting
Robin

[RobinC]

Also most fliers are caused by an incorrect zero and taking a moving shot, and varying back bend with fatigue is often another culprit. NPA (zero position) is not a once only check for a shoot, always check your zero on EVERY shot by a relaxed natural hold and avert the eye and return, it should be spot on, close enough is not good enough, any muscled hold will produce a bad shot, often back to where you muscled it from or to the opposite.
Good shooting,
Robin

[richrd]

I've been working on this, shooting with a square, closed and open stance. and it makes no sense. (I've shot silhouette ever since it got popular.)

Closing my eyes and getting in position with a square stance points the barrel way right.

but the open stance although more comfortable, gives the most left right flyers. the closed stance gives the best results but is the least comfortable.

I also found that the cheekpiece was not adjusted correctly which may have been causing some of my problems.

[Johan_85]

For me I had to train standing much before it became comfortable. Of course if it feels like you are hurting yourself then it's no good but if it produces good results I would stick with it even if it's less comfortable. You got to strengthen the muscles to make it comfortable and that must be done in position but you can gain quicker results if you train your core muscles out of position also. I also like standing in position without my shooting clothes and just trying to keep the rifle as still as possible.

I started with four 4 the core found on this link http://www.armyprt.com/special_conditio ... core.shtml do it once every day until it become easy and then do the exercises longer and you can add more exercises.

Now I can shoot standing about 60 minutes before it becomes uncomfortable, it is mostly my feet and knees that starts to hurt. I have maybe 2 30-60 seconds breaks where I just stretch my back and rests my shoulders. I rest the rifle on a rifle rest between shots but I shoot pretty quick so that rest is more or less only the time for reloading.