I need advice choosing an aftermarket grip for my IZH-46M. I've had it for a few years, and have been through a few grips. I bought the laminated grip that Airguns of Arizona sold a few years ago, made by Steve Corcoran. That ended up being a large size (only one size available), and was absolutely swimming on me. I sold that and bought another grip by Steve Corcoran (woodsandwatersoutdoors.com), sized small. This grip fits much better, but still not an ideal fit.
My knuckles measure ~82mm or so. This seems to put me in small territory for most grips I've seen. My problem seems to be that my hands are slim but long. For non-target style grips I tend to prefer very thick grips, probably because my fingers are longer. On those grips, the height of the grip does not matter because there is no palm shelf, so I mainly go for grip thickness.
The problem I have with target grips is that they never seem to short enough from the top of the grip to the palm shelf to accommodate my narrow hand. There is a good 1/4 - 1/2 inch at the top of my small Corcoran grips that I currently between the web of my hand and the beavertail. Jamming the palm shelf up high is not a fix, as it then shifts my whole hand up and my palm is completely in the wrong position as it relates to the main part of the grip. On the Corcoran grip, it is also quite narrow where my middle finger meets the grip, and really needs quite a bit of filler there.
I have decided to order a set of Rink grips. I am torn between the small and the extra small. The Rinks seem like a better fit because I can get them in a thicker model, and the ergonomics seem better as well. I think the rake angle is steeper, which I definitely prefer. I don't mind modifying a grip, but would like to start with the best base possible.
82mm puts me in small territory with the Rink grip. The measurement was the same as with the Corcoran, so I am concerned I will have the same issue with the extra room at the beavertail. I'm also concerned that going with the XS will give me a tiny little grip volume-wise, though I'm hoping the "thick" model will solve that.
Any advice?
Thanks!
Help choosing size of grip for IZH-46M
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TargetTerror
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:17 pm
- Location: Boston, MA
grip
Rink grips are small made , i used to shoot with Morini small grips on all my pistols , now i have mediun Rink grips on all my pistols, Rink also have way more adjustments to make grip fit as close as you want it to ,
i am also 85mm across the knuckles .
I would suggest you by a medium there is plenty of adjustment either way to make it fit a slightly larger or smaller hand .
Cheers .S
i am also 85mm across the knuckles .
I would suggest you by a medium there is plenty of adjustment either way to make it fit a slightly larger or smaller hand .
Cheers .S
Listen to Rover.
Buy some two part epoxy putty, adjust your palm shelf correctly and then see (feel) here your hand needs support. Add the epoxy to those parts and then apply gentle pressure with your hand so that it forms to the contour you need.
Then just sand and fill until you get close to ideal. You'll never get it "perfect". No body does... So don't try. You'll spend time and effort that could be used for improving your shooting.
Hope this helps
Buy some two part epoxy putty, adjust your palm shelf correctly and then see (feel) here your hand needs support. Add the epoxy to those parts and then apply gentle pressure with your hand so that it forms to the contour you need.
Then just sand and fill until you get close to ideal. You'll never get it "perfect". No body does... So don't try. You'll spend time and effort that could be used for improving your shooting.
Hope this helps
Making a grip fit like a glove is a waste of time & energy, especially because unlike a typical glove, it's rigid. Your hand isn't, and will change dimensions a bit with time, temperature, and your degree of hydration. The direction it naturally points in may also wander around a bit with time.
There are a few critical things you need out of a grip:
1) It has to be a solid handle for the pistol, mechanically secure. Almost any grip will satisfy this as long as you keep the screws tight.
2) You have to be able to reach the trigger properly. None of the grip should touch the trigger finger along the side, and the trigger should "break" at a point where the force from the finger is straight to the rear. The finger hinges at the joints, so the natural motion is a combination of arcs. The fore & aft location of the trigger has to be right, and the adjustment range on the pistol is often a bit limited compared to the range of hand sizes & finger lengths it may have to accommodate. The fore & aft "depth" of the grip should get your finger into the range you can cover with the trigger position adjustment.
3) The angle of the grip with respect to vertical has to suit you. Some people prefer a more vertical grip than others. I find that too much angle hurts my elbow, but everyone is a bit different. The steeper the angle, the lower the bore line, and the more straight back the recoil will be. That's good, as long as your joints can accommodate it comfortably.
4) The grip should naturally align the barrel with your line of sight. Some people insist that it should line up with your arm, so the recoil is more straight up the arm. Depending on your stance, that can require an awkward head position to line up the sights. Aligning the grip can be a fussy adjustment to make. Relatively small amounts of material need to added or removed to make necessary changes. This is where the adjustable grip system like Steyr uses on their air pistols is really nice. I don't think this is nearly as crucial as some people make it out to be until you get to a very high level. It will not make the difference between an 8 & a 10. Until you aren't shooting very many 8's, don't agonize over it.
5) The grip should "index" your hand's position so it is the SAME every time. I think this is one of the most critical things, but people get carried away trying to make the grip fit perfectly EVERYWHERE. I think that is a big mistake, especially if it allows the shooter to apply pressure to the grip that is not in line with the bore. The factory IZH grip is a perfect example. They provide a lot of wood right where the finger tips end up. In fact, the front of the grip on the finger tip side is pretty much perpendicular to the bore line. ANY pressure applied with the finger tips will rotate the pistol, whether you carve it to fit your fingers nicely or not. Personally, I think there shouldn't be ANY wood you can touch past the last joint on your fingers. I'm convinced some sort of skeleton grip would be far better than a fully form fitting one, as long as it has just enough material in the right spots to ensure a consistent grip. You want all the pressure to be straight front to back. If that is the case, why do people spend hours molding material to fit the palm of their hand? The same goes for building up thumb rests. Once you get more than a centimeter or so off axis, you are only providing material your hand can apply torque with. It's fine if you have developed a perfectly consistent grip, but if your hand changes slightly (which it will), the more form fitting the grip is in places where it isn't supplying critical support or placement control, the more it will push your shots around.
There are a few critical things you need out of a grip:
1) It has to be a solid handle for the pistol, mechanically secure. Almost any grip will satisfy this as long as you keep the screws tight.
2) You have to be able to reach the trigger properly. None of the grip should touch the trigger finger along the side, and the trigger should "break" at a point where the force from the finger is straight to the rear. The finger hinges at the joints, so the natural motion is a combination of arcs. The fore & aft location of the trigger has to be right, and the adjustment range on the pistol is often a bit limited compared to the range of hand sizes & finger lengths it may have to accommodate. The fore & aft "depth" of the grip should get your finger into the range you can cover with the trigger position adjustment.
3) The angle of the grip with respect to vertical has to suit you. Some people prefer a more vertical grip than others. I find that too much angle hurts my elbow, but everyone is a bit different. The steeper the angle, the lower the bore line, and the more straight back the recoil will be. That's good, as long as your joints can accommodate it comfortably.
4) The grip should naturally align the barrel with your line of sight. Some people insist that it should line up with your arm, so the recoil is more straight up the arm. Depending on your stance, that can require an awkward head position to line up the sights. Aligning the grip can be a fussy adjustment to make. Relatively small amounts of material need to added or removed to make necessary changes. This is where the adjustable grip system like Steyr uses on their air pistols is really nice. I don't think this is nearly as crucial as some people make it out to be until you get to a very high level. It will not make the difference between an 8 & a 10. Until you aren't shooting very many 8's, don't agonize over it.
5) The grip should "index" your hand's position so it is the SAME every time. I think this is one of the most critical things, but people get carried away trying to make the grip fit perfectly EVERYWHERE. I think that is a big mistake, especially if it allows the shooter to apply pressure to the grip that is not in line with the bore. The factory IZH grip is a perfect example. They provide a lot of wood right where the finger tips end up. In fact, the front of the grip on the finger tip side is pretty much perpendicular to the bore line. ANY pressure applied with the finger tips will rotate the pistol, whether you carve it to fit your fingers nicely or not. Personally, I think there shouldn't be ANY wood you can touch past the last joint on your fingers. I'm convinced some sort of skeleton grip would be far better than a fully form fitting one, as long as it has just enough material in the right spots to ensure a consistent grip. You want all the pressure to be straight front to back. If that is the case, why do people spend hours molding material to fit the palm of their hand? The same goes for building up thumb rests. Once you get more than a centimeter or so off axis, you are only providing material your hand can apply torque with. It's fine if you have developed a perfectly consistent grip, but if your hand changes slightly (which it will), the more form fitting the grip is in places where it isn't supplying critical support or placement control, the more it will push your shots around.
Thanks! I'm still constantly learning stuff myself after shooting for a similar length of time.
I've been thinking about the problem of "extra" wood. One interesting test would be if you can tighten or relax your grip slightly without having the pistol move. If you tighten your grip and it twists, that implies you are applying pressure to wood that is off axis. Less movement would mean the grip is more "forgiving" of grip variations.
I tried this quickly with the only grip I have near my computer. It is a laser training pistol modeled after a Glock, and it has a relatively narrow grip, with none of the usual ergonomic features found on my target pistols. It was quite steady as I varied my grip pressure, but there was nothing touching my thumb, fingertips, or a large portion of the palm of my hand.
I'll have to try one of my air pistols later today & will report back.
I've been thinking about the problem of "extra" wood. One interesting test would be if you can tighten or relax your grip slightly without having the pistol move. If you tighten your grip and it twists, that implies you are applying pressure to wood that is off axis. Less movement would mean the grip is more "forgiving" of grip variations.
I tried this quickly with the only grip I have near my computer. It is a laser training pistol modeled after a Glock, and it has a relatively narrow grip, with none of the usual ergonomic features found on my target pistols. It was quite steady as I varied my grip pressure, but there was nothing touching my thumb, fingertips, or a large portion of the palm of my hand.
I'll have to try one of my air pistols later today & will report back.