TargetTalk

New to the sight here.... My Son is starting his DE Qual's in youth rifle club with a Savage Mark 1 FVT and want to upgrade trigger group/sights/ possibly stock. I would like thoughts/contact points to reputable sources for quality components. Would like to get the most out of this rifle without upgrading to Anschutz, etc. at this time.

At least one option for an aftermarlet stock. They will also install a rail for an extra charge.

http://www.sharpshootersupply.com/

Thanks PaulB..... I should have added that I have in the past installed an after market cheek rest on this rifle. he has been getting the proper cheek weld weld on this rifle for a few years now. as he gets older a newer heavier wood stock may help. thanks.

A point to note .... the FVT is really a beginner-intermediate rifle.
If your son has been shooting a few years he may be beyond what that rilfe can give him. Sights and stock you can certainly work out and possibly improve, but to go beyond an intermediate skill with that rifle is really tough as you can't do enough to that trigger.

Questions that can help folks help you:
1) how old is your son
2) how tall / weight or build
3) current average scores in 3-P

My thoughts w/o the above questions tend, again, for me to think that he may be at a point where he could improve much more with a rifle such as an Anschutz 64 action (intermediate-advanced) or a 54 action (advanced+).

By the time you put money into the FVT to change out the stock, put better sights on it and spend gobs of time on the trigger, you can find a 64 actioned rifle to shoot. You might wince at the price of a used advanced level rifle, but from my opinion of the time I've been able to spend with my own kids in this sport while they have improved and competed, it has been worth every single penny I've put into it.

I'm willing to say that with a used rifle, if you need to sell to move up or move on, you'll pretty much get any money back there.

I agree with Joel. You can probably obtain either an old model Anschutz 64, or a 1903, or a Remington 540XR, or 540XR-JR for about the same money that you might spend on doing a significant upgrade to your Savage. I think that any of these would be a better upgrade. I have additionally upgraded my 540XRs by substituting a Anschutz front sight and replacing the Williams rear with a old used Redfield 75. You can often find each of these on Ebay for $40 to $75.

his is 13, weighs 90lbs., 4'10". He is working his way through Prone Distinguished Expert. Has to shoot no less than 90's out of 100 to move on in 4P.

The last post was mine....didn't realize I wasn't logged in.

I would agree with Joel and Paul on their recommendations. While we shoot USAS, my son just picked up shooting with a local club (they shoot smallbore indoors through the winter) and they go through the NRA junior program. Just for comparison, most of the kids there are shooting 1903's or older 64 Match action Anschutz. They shoot on A-17 and A-36 targets at 50-ft.

My son used to shoot the FVT (he still does for 4-H sporter) but when shooting precision at 50meters it became clear the gun was becoming the limiting factor (as Joel noted it occurs) and made the switch. We were fortunate to find a good deal here on TT and picked up a used 1907, my son was 11 about 75 lbs, avging 545 at 50 meters when he started using it. I like the FVT for beginners, we use them exclusively in the 4-H program, but if your getting a bit more serious I would really look at something more (I know the pain of that!). I noticed on the buy/sell there is a 1903 for sale but they can be sourced through Civilian Marksmanship Program as well. I really find great rifles though here on TT.

The one thing I have noticed is that tricked out customized rifles dont seem to hold their value here, so if you decide to trick out the FVT, it may not be what the next person wants and selling an upgraded FVT for $700 when they retail at $250 you probably wont get the money back out of it as if you buy a normal 1903 or 1807 and are reselling it. (But you wont have the upfront investment either!)

Good luck and have fun, if you decide to go with the custom stock and sights post some photos I've been thinking of doing a custom stock for fun on the FVT.

Thanks CoBelties... I appreciate your opinions and experience! Last night he used a 1903 at class and scored very well on DE Prone. I have been leaning heavily towards an Ans 1903, funds are tight right now and was trying to be frugal. Again Thanks.

COBelties wrote:The one thing I have noticed is that tricked out customized rifles dont seem to hold their value here, so if you decide to trick out the FVT, it may not be what the next person wants and selling an upgraded FVT for $700 when they retail at $250 you probably wont get the money back out of it as if you buy a normal 1903 or 1807 and are reselling it. (But you wont have the upfront investment either!)

Exactly right ... I have no doubt that the FVT can hold the 10/9 rings with good ammo out of a rest, but the trigger is going to make it tough to be consistent, even in prone.

Freedom wrote:Thanks CoBelties... I appreciate your opinions and experience! Last night he used a 1903 at class and scored very well on DE Prone. I have been leaning heavily towards an Ans 1903, funds are tight right now and was trying to be frugal. Again Thanks.

Yeah, this is not an inexpensive sport, but again, if you get a used 1903, you'll be pretty much set to get back out what you put into it when he's ready to move up again.

I am a little late to the discussion here but I will back up what COBelties and jhmartin are saying.

The Savage is a great starter rifle and also an excellent choice when shooting under the "Sporter" rules but it has limitations. While you can spend lots of money turning it into a true target rifle it is an economically losing battle. After custom stocks, lots of trigger work, upgraded sights, I am sure someone would put a custom barrel on it for you, underneath it would still be a Savage and not attractive to many buyers.

One very nice thing about the used market for the German rifles is that there is very little depreciation.

Dropping around $1000 on a single shot bolt action 22 will make anyone wince but if you are serious about advancing in the sport well worth the investment.

my 2 rounds,
'Dude

I'd also sell the Savage and move up. For the same reason I recently picked up a used Walther KKM for a sub-100lb girl from Duffy for $525, and will only have to install a 4-way buttplate ($170 from Masterclass Stocks) and perhaps adjustable irises to provide her with a very competitive rifle.

It weights slightly over 10lbs, which she will be able to handle much better than my 12lb Kimber conversions or 14+lb Anschutz 54's.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =370441034



This dealer imports club guns from Europe, is good about evaluating bores and has some excellent values in older, high-end rifles suitable for your purpose.

Our junior program has a dozen 1980-vintage Achievers and Savages based on the 64 action, and I can't say I'm a big fan of that bolt. Parts are very difficult to find and light primer strike problems are fairly common from decades of storing the rifles cocked.

I've been trying to figure out how peoples' Anschutz's wiegh so much, my 1913/2213 with a 12" tube and weights and riser block weighs 12.6 lbs. o.O

bpscCheney wrote:I've been trying to figure out how peoples' Anschutz's wiegh so much, my 1913/2213 with a 12" tube and weights and riser block weighs 12.6 lbs. o.O

Wood density can vary significantly, depending upon ring width and attendant percentages of earlywood (heavy) and latewood (light).



The Kimber 82G's, for example, were designed for 9th graders, yet between the .950" barrels and the incredibly dense plantation walnut, many come in at 11lbs+. Same with the older Anschutz models in figured French Walnut. The newer wood-stocked Annie models use lesser wood species, but I suspect they do so for the weight, not the cost. Obviously, aluminum solves all those problems.

Another reason is stock shape. Look at a 1960s Supermatch, and then at a 1980s/90s/2000s model. The 1960s rifle has a bigger stock; the fore-end is deeper, the cheekpiece is thicker, and deeper, and has no hollows routed out for the cheekpice mechanism. More wood equals more weight.

The older 1400 actions also had a heavier bolt, this adds a few oz.

Modern rifles can be heavy too though. My 1813 is in a Gemini ultra (aluminium and maple) stock but weights 13lb 14oz. It has raisers and a 6in tube.

While I understand the desire to be frugal etc you have to consider that often times the upgrades to a rifle do not add up to what you could have bought to begin with especially when you get into smith work costs. Only to have a souped up Savage in the end. While nothing wrong with that and many are fine shooters I would also suggest looking for a good used Anschutz even if you have to save a bit longer for it.

Many people have tried to build a better rifle from what was a good rifle only to spend more and get less than they would have just crying the first time around. If you are sure he is into it the investment is worth it and if you find a good deal it will hold its value later on.

Bo

http://www.l3ps.net/home.html

The AccuTrigger problem can also be overcome quite easily. I have one Mark 1 FVT shooting at 11 ounces and it has never malfunctioned. I have seen the Savage Mark I FVT trigger go down to 8 ounces, but you tend to get an occasional malfunction at that trigger pull weight when closing the bolt too hard. That is not a huge deal as the AccuTrigger safety mechanism catches and prevents the rifle from firing. The 11 ounce rifle has never malfunctioned. I supply an instruction sheet with every stock that explains how to make the AccuTrigger go down to 1lb. It's really easy. Anyone can do it.

DE is tough, some kids at my rifle club are still working on it 2 years in, I wish him the best and many tens!

I've added rails, combs and buttplates to a couple of laminated-stock Savages now, and you can do better. The Williams sight is simply awful, and replacements aren't easily fitted.



The best junior rifle out of the box when you can find them are the older Annie 64C's (2d from left). Same as a Match 64 but with a lighter barrel. The Match 64 is also an excellent choice, but is closer to nine pounds than seven like the 64C.

The Annie Achievers on either end in the photo have more features and vastly superior sights that the Savages, and the Kimber is best of all in action quality, trigger, and equal in sights and barrel, but are badly balanced, have a too-large grip radius and are too heavy. All that is fixable by major surgery on stock and barrel, and as nobody is making a decent junior rifle these days short of a pricey 1903, I'm thinking about it for the next $450 Kimber in the queue. Our youngsters do much better using the Annie hook buttplate on the 64C than the more expensive 4-Way on the Kimber.

I bought that 64C last month on GB for 300 bucks and added pillar bedding and the adjustable comb. It shoots far, far above its 7lb weight. ;):