TargetTalk

I would like to hear opinions regarding at what age pistol competitors are able to achieve their peak scores.

I took my pistol competition seriously starting at about age 29. My scores in 22 conventional, standard pistol and air pistol steadily increased to where my scores were 560 in air pistol, 545 in standard pistol and 860/870 (indoor 50’ and outdoor 25/50 yards) in 22 conventional pistol. That peak occurred when I was in my early 40’s. Then things started to slide. When I hit 45 my AP scores had fallen to 552 and I shelved the pistols in frustration.

I’ve attempted three comebacks since that date, but my 50’ 22 conventional pistol scores are stuck in the high 830’s and my AP scores dwell in the mid 540’s. I’ve essentially dropped a full ½ NRA classification.

I had initially attributed my decline to vision. I’m cross-eye dominant and fire from a very closed stance. But I’m now 53 and in my most recent comeback I seem to have found a sweet spot in my glasses; yet I still don’t seem to be able to move my pistol scores forward.

I’m physically fit, active and have no health issues. I’m firing AP (my favored event) on the same range and under consistent conditions as during my peak years. Is it common for competitors to lose stability, fine muscle (trigger) control during their 40’s? Do other competitors experience this as well?

I’ve found my declining scores to be enormously frustrating (this being the reason that my previous two comebacks ending with the pistols going back into the safe). I don’t know if it would be less frustrating to know if this was a common occurrence or not, but I would like to hear of other competitors experience and thoughts.

I'm about in the mid 40's and can relate to your experiences but with not as high peaks (yet because I'm too stubborn to put the guns away). Part of the shooting attraction for me was the possibility of shooting competitively in the 60's-80's. At matches, I regularly am amazed of a few '70-'80 year old shooters that kick my butt!

Don't give up.

Clint

Sometime between coming out of diapers and going back into diapers.

At the 2012 Olympics the average age for the Rifle and Pistol Gold Medalists was 29. In 2008 it was 28.

In 2012 for Shotgun it was 26. in 2008 it was 28.

I'm 61, and I can't shoot as well as I used to. I have tremors & muscle spasms in my right arm that make it very difficult. My eyes are also not as good as they once were.

However, I am not about to throw in the towel. When I shoot a bad shot, there is always a reason. The muscle tremors mostly kick in if I hold for more than a few seconds, so I'm learning to get my shots off faster. As long as I don't jerk the trigger, I can often shoot as good or better than I ever have. My trigger control is constantly improving.

I've tried shooting left handed. That is still a work in progress, but I can shoot better left handed than my worst days right handed now. It's also been a valuable process revisiting all the fundamentals.

The tremors come & go, and on the theory that it's a muscle thing, I'm constantly trying different exercise regimes to make it better. I've spent a lot of time finding a good shooting glasses setup that allows me to see OK.

Basically, you need to identify what your problem areas are, and work on them. Just shooting more won't fix it. By now, you probably have some bad habits that are pretty well ingrained. With the scores you are shooting, they are small, but still there. They won't go away over night, and they won't go away unless you change something about the way you train (not "practice"). Dry fire lots, come up with drills to work on your weak areas, study up on the mental side of the game.

I'm probably never going to shoot as well as I did when I was younger, but there are always areas I can work on to get better. I still enjoy shooting 9 tens, even if I don't enjoy shooting a 2 when a spasm hits at the wrong time.

There is no reason for most people to shoot lower scores in their 40's or 50's. Actually, I think that at those ages the "nerves" settle down. In my case, I noticed that at around age 60 I needed to exercise regularly to keep my muscle tone. Before that I could just shoot often to stay in shooting shape. All that being said, I never got to the level I wanted to be at in the shooting game, but I never got the targeted training I needed to get a firm foundation. I suggest that you start a physical fitness program directed to increasing cardiovascular capacity and muscle tone. Of course this is alongside and must be compatible with your shooting training. The chances are that you won't exceed the level where you peaked, but you may come back close (you are only limited by your mental outlook). Always remember just how much of this game is mental. Building your body up to steady your hold and withstand the physical rigors of a long match or days of matches will give you confidence. Confidence unlocks the mental limits one places on oneself.

David Levene wrote:At the 2012 Olympics the average age for the Rifle and Pistol Gold Medalists was 29. In 2008 it was 28.

In 2012 for Shotgun it was 26. in 2008 it was 28.

I suspect this is driven more by training time/opportunity than potential scores. An Olympic competitor is a professional athlete - but often ill-paid. There comes a day when he can no longer afford to avoid a post-Olympic career.

Go over to the muzzle-loading community, where there's no money to speak of, and you'll find the top shooters are much older. 40s and 50s.

Mike M. wrote:

David Levene wrote:At the 2012 Olympics the average age for the Rifle and Pistol Gold Medalists was 29. In 2008 it was 28.

In 2012 for Shotgun it was 26. in 2008 it was 28.

I suspect this is driven more by training time/opportunity than potential scores.

Yes, as an "old fart" I'd like to believe that as well Mike; but then reality kicks in.

Countries invest their scarce resources in the athletes with the greatest potential.

"Doc" Young was fifty-two when he competed in his last Olympics. John Zurek is pushing fifty and told me this morning he's getting tired. (You look distinguished with that grey at your temples, Johnny.)

But, there is another guy I shoot with who is in his seventies and is hot to set new National Records for his age group (and he already set one). Look at Steve Reiter in his seventies: he set well over twenty National Records THIS YEAR while I was shooting next to him.

Not to brag, but I have won four NRA National Championships in the "Old Farts" categories and one unclaimed National Record. It's still fun. Isn't that what it's all about?

There is no doubt that some shooters hit there highest scores later in life. I would suspect that is normally due to them not having started, or not having devoted the same time and effort when they were young.

Records shot in restricted age categories are pretty meaningless when discussing performance levels throughout a persons life.

Representation at a certain age is also meaningless. The great Afanasijs Kuzmins shot in his 9th Olympics in 2012 when in his mid 60s. Nobody would claim however that he is shooting as well as he did in the mid 1980s.

I have little doubt that, given the same opportunities, those in their earlier years will out-perform what they will be able to achieve later in life. Our sport is no different to others in that respect.

David Levene wrote: I have little doubt that, given the same opportunities, those in their earlier years will out-perform what they will be able to achieve later in life. Our sport is no different to others in that respect.

Totally agree, shooting still requires lots of fitness and as we get older, things deteriorate. Look at the ages of those winning Olympic medals and wc's etc, they are not generally in their 50's or even 40's.

Rob.

You're really asking two different questions, with more emphasis on the latter:

• What is the prime age for pistol competitors?
• How do I cope with declining (perceived) results as I (age/have diminished training time/have diminished visual acuity/etc.)?

As you can tell from the responses to your first question, you're not too old. However, the second (implied) question is more nuanced.

If you enjoy shooting just to shoot, there is no need to set goals.

If you enjoy shooting as an endeavor that allows you to:

• set goals
• work towards them
• achieve some, and
• measure the amount of work you need to do to achieve the ones that you did not meet

you can still do that as well.

Just like each shot in a match is independent of the previous or subsequent shot, your goals can - and should - be independent of previous and future results.

You can set S.M.A.Rc.T. goals for each micro- (e.g., 3 months) or macro- (e.g., 1 year) phase, and measure your performance against those.

And I'm still holding out hope that I can be the first person to win both High Junior and High Senior at Camp Perry :)

(not in the same year - shut up, Rover.)

I luv ya, John, but you need a tighter grip on reality!

john bickar wrote:shut up, Rover

DID I STUTTER??

I sincerely appreciate the responses and perspectives. I have a number of take-aways from these responses:

1) I had become accustomed to setting goals that were progressively higher as I improved. Setting lower goals seemed to be defeatist. Setting stretch goals is good, but setting unrealistic goals isn't. Perhaps my current goal is to shoot a score that may well be 10 points below that where I peaked. (If and when I achieve that, of course it would be bumped up to a new goal).

2) My primary exercise has been cycling (about 1200-1500 miles/year). I've cycled less during my most recent attempt at a comeback because I didn't believe that cycling to/from work was conducive with shooting in the evening. I need to experiment with this.

3) I know that there are a lot of competitors who continue to shoot very good scores in their 50's or beyond. But from the comments I've heard and my own observations of competitors at my club, I think that the ability to score well seems to decline somewhere in the 40's. I have tracked my scores very carefully and maintain a diary to diagnose issues, so I know that for certain when my scores began to decline and I'm afraid it is attributable primarily to age. I used to shoot with Doc Young about a dozen years ago. His scores were incredible, but not what they were when he was younger. I have shot with with another world-class competitor who is has declined from quite extraordinary to merely great.

I appreciate the input and encouragement. I still find it hard to accept lower scores, and frankly I don't enjoy seeing people that I used to outscore turning the tables on me (yes, even club-level shooters like to move up in the ranks). But despite the frustrations I do still enjoy shooting.

Thanks for the past input and any future contributions.

Northwestern AP wrote:My primary exercise has been cycling (about 1200-1500 miles/year).

1500 miles a year on a bike is not "exercise", it's "commuting" :)

And/or "gloat-muting" - as in, "I ride my bike 3 miles to work, and I'm door-to-door in 20 minutes. It sucks to be you." (Why yes, I also gloat-mute - why do you ask?)

Northwestern AP wrote:I still find it hard to accept lower scores, and frankly I don't enjoy seeing people that I used to outscore turning the tables on me (yes, even club-level shooters like to move up in the ranks).

Aye, there's the rub.

You're getting beat by people that you used to beat. The eternal motivator.

It sucks. There, I said it.

But you should still show up and shoot.

You're older than I am, so I won't give you a life's lesson.

I can tell you that I have dished out, and been dealt, many an ass-kicking in this sport, with many more of both to come.

It is a life's work learning to deal with both.

Ways of dealing with it include being happy for the success of others that you have competed with, and taking pride in the fact that you have provided stiff competition that has propelled them to their current abilities.

An anecdote:

In (an unspecified year in the mid-1990s), I was an up-and-coming junior pistol shooter, who had not traveled much beyond a 500-mile radius of my hometown. I had the opportunity to go out to California to train with an Olympic medalist.

During that training trip, I went to shoot the California State Air Pistol Championship, against the likes of many good shooters, including Don Nygord. World Champion Don Nygord.

I shot a good score (for me), he shot a poor score (for him), and I won the match. My takeaway, at 17/18?

I. Beat. Don. Nygord.
I can do this.

I doubt Don even remembered that match. But I did. I still do, almost 20 years later.

If you are a high-level shooter, don't discount the value that you provide to the sport by simply showing up and shooting at a high level. That is pretty motivating to the up-and-comers.

Ragnar Skanåker made 583 in free pistol 1988 age 54 and 591 in air pistol 1990 at the age of 56! As these records are the Swedish records I think he did his best at this period.

The answer for me is a bit less complicated....

The answer is Today. I can't get better yesterday, unless I'm in a bar....
I have no clue how I'lll shoot in the future, but when the future gets here, the answer will still be Today....

I shoot my best scores today, I put the gun down, look at where I could have done better and shrug it off because I ALWAYS shoot my best when I show up. The score may be different, but its about the effort. Never leave a thing on the bench. I may beat a few guys, and get spanked by others, But I always shoot my best today ...

I have been "lurking" on target talk for a long time, and finally found a question that I feel qualified to answer. "When to start".

I shot my second air pistol match this year, so I would say.. at my age, 71

Naturally, your opinion may be different. It depends on your goals.
My goal is to improve a little, and have fun. So far, so good.

Actually, I used to shoot mid-expert scores in three gun bullseye 30 years ago. But when I picked up my pistols after 30 years of inactivity, I could barely hit the target.
So I thought that maybe a little air pistol shooting would get me back in shape.
Well it turns out that this air pistol shooting is a lot of fun. And the icing on the cake is that in my last match I placed NEXT to last. So I am sure that a shudder of fear has traveled up to the top.

Looking forward to the November match.