TargetTalk

Hi,

I'm new and like to do match shooting. I was a military sniper and did a couple of military competition. Now I'm retired so I'd like to continue doing competition shooting.

I heard that the Ahschütz was the best weapon for this kind of shooting. I check to maybe buy the 1913 Walnut natur "Super Match or the 1913 with stock 1918 ALU Precise. Is it the best rifles and what is the difference between a wood frame than an aluminium one? Both have aluminium butt plate.

What is the best sight sets ?

I would like to know what kind of Jacket and Pan is the best for match 3 positions or 4 positions?

What's the best ammunition for practice and competition?

What kind of glove?

So a lot of beginner question for you folks

My best regards

That's a lot of questions!

Rifle - The Anschutz 1913 is a very good rifle. It's built around a time proven action and a great trigger. In terms of differences between the stocks, the 1913 is fully adjustable for butt and cheekpiece position, the 1918 Precise allows a little more refinement as the cheekpiece is more complex, and the grip is articulated. On a more basic level the 1918 Precise is shorter at the butt end, and more shallow at the the fore-end than the wood 1913 stock.

Have you thought of alternatives to the Anschutz? The Feinwerkbau 2700 and Walther KK300 (either aluminium stock, or laminate Anatomic stock) are both very good rifles. These are of equal quality and accuracy to the Anschutz. The actions are mechanically quite similar, and have excellent triggers; the Walther trigger is often said to be even better than the Anschutz.

If you are a beginner to smallbore shooting it may be worthwhile looking for a second hand model; i.e an older 1913, or a 1813 (1980s predecessor). These are essentially similar to a current 1913, but the older stocks will be a little less complex, but still with enough adjustment to get a good fit. Smallbore barrels take a long time to wear out and shoot well, enough for a beginner, for many years. If you feel that the original stock or sights are limiting you, these can be upgraded with newer and fancier ones very easily.

Sights: The Anschutz 7002 rearsight is very good. Alternatively Gehmann, Centra, and Hammerli are common aftermarket replacements. The Centra Spy and 10-50 rearsights are less bulky that the Anschutz 7002 for a less cluttered down-range view. The Hammerli is much the same size as the Anschutz but is reputed to be very hard-wearing and very consistent adjustment. Gehmann and Centra iris eyepieces are a good extra; the iris lets you control the brightness of the sight picture so it stays constant.

Jacket: Kurt Thune has a very good reputation, and is very successful. Hitex are also good - in the UK the dealer will make alterations for a better fit. Other top brands are Anschutz, Kustermann, Mouche, Sauer, Truttmann.

Ammo: No one can answer this for you, as smallbore barrels can be very fussy. To find the best performer in your individual barrel you would need to test not only different brands, and grades, but even production lots. Although at short range (25 yards/metres or under), any quality target grade cartridge will hold a tight group if the barrel is in good condition. Eley, Lapua, and RWS are the leading brands for match ammunition; they all make several grades of ammunition. Wolf and SK are lower-grade Lapua.

Glove: Kurt Thune, Sauer, Mondard, Anschutz are all popular. The basic choice is between long fingers and half-length fingers, and a flexible grippy black rubber coating and a stiffer white rubber coating. Try some for a fit. Half fingers are good if you have long slim hands, because they won't pinch your fingertips.

Tims excellent reply covers pretty much everything. The only thing I'd add is to pick the gun etc that feels right for you. I'd too suggest 2nd hand - which is the route I went down. If you can get a jacket tailored for you at not too high a price then I'd do that, otherwise pick one that fits well and has the right cut for positions shooting. As with all things you can upgrade in the future if you so wish, and when you better know your requirements.

Rob.

I would really recommend finding yourself a good smallbore rifle club. If it is any good at all they should have suitable equipment for you to borrow to find out if ISSF style shooting is for you. All of the lit you have mentioned in your initial post is going to be a substantial investment if bought new. A new rifle from any of the major manufacturers in an aluminium stock is going to start at over $2000. At least by joining a club first you are going to have had a chance to possibly try some things out and can get advice on what kit may suit you, and on what is not likely to work.

ISSF style shooting is very very different to any sort of military shooting. I'm not too up on things over the pond, and note that you are in Canada not the USA. However I know that in the US a discipline called Highpower is popular and from what I understand is closer in style to what you may be used to shooting in the military especially if you have shot service sniper type competitions, do they shoot it in Canada too?

Alan

BigAl wrote:I'm not too up on things over the pond, and note that you are in Canada not the USA. However I know that in the US a discipline called Highpower is popular and from what I understand is closer in style to what you may be used to shooting in the military especially if you have shot service sniper type competitions, do they shoot it in Canada too?

Alan

I don't know I never use that world Highpower in my competition and training. I was a sniper and goes to different mission and I did competition to. I used my 7.62mm caliber Canadian army sniper weapon. Now they start to use a .50 for the same job. Highpower does it mean weapon with a high caliber I don't know. The longest distance I shoot was 1000 m and it was really hard to judge the winds over the distance. We had our books, established during training, which helped us a lot.
I have competed against the U.S. and other countries also. It was very rewarding to see different shooting method.

Regarding civil shots I really do not know how they work and the kind of weapons they use. It is for this reason that I break so many questions.

Tim S wrote:That's a lot of questions!

Rifle - The Anschutz 1913 is a very good rifle. It's built around a time proven action and a great trigger. In terms of differences between the stocks, the 1913 is fully adjustable for butt and cheekpiece position, the 1918 Precise allows a little more refinement as the cheekpiece is mmore complex, and the grip is articulated. On a more basic level the 1918 Precise is shorter at the butt end, and more shallow at the the fore-end than the wood 1913 stock.

Have you thought of alternatives to the Anschutz? The Feinwerkbau 2700 and Walther KK300 (either aluminium stock, or laminate Anatomic stock) are both very good rifles. These are of equal quality and accuracy to the Anschutz. The actions are mechanically quite similar, and have excellent triggers; the Walther trigger is often said to be even better than the Anschutz.

If you are a beginner to smallbore shooting it may be worthwhile looking for a second hand model; i.e an older 1913, or a 1813 (1980s predecessor). These are essentially similar as a current 1913, but the stock will be a little less complex, but still with enough adjustment to get a good fit. Smallbore barrels take a long time to wear out and shoot well, enough for a beginner, for many years. If you f.eel that the original stock or sights are limiting you, these can be upgraded with newer and fancier ones very easily.

Sights: The Anschutz 7002 rearsight is very good. Alternatively Gehmann, Centra, and Hammerli are common aftermarket replacements. The Centra Spy and 10-50 rearsights are less bulky that the Anschutz 7002 for a less cluttered down-range view. The Hammerli is much the same size as the Anschutz but is reputed to be very hard-wearing and very consistent adjustment. Gehmann and Centra iris eyepieces are a good extra, the iris lets you control the brightness of the sight picture so it stays constant.

Jacket: Kurt Thune has a very good reputation, and is very successful. Hitex are also good - in the UK the dealer will make alterations for a better fit. Other top brands are Anschutz, Kustermann, Mouche, Sauer, Truttmann.

Ammo: No one can answer this for you, as smallbore barrels can be very fussy. To find the best performer in your individual barrel you would need to test not only different brands, and grades, but even production lots. Although at short range (25 yards/metres or under), any quality target grade cartridge will hold a tight group if the barrel is in good condition. Eley, Lapua, and RWS are the leading brands for match ammunition; they all make several grades of ammunition. Wolf and SK are lower-grade Lapua.

Glove: Kurt Thune, Sauer, Mondard, Anschutz are all popular. The basic choice is between long fingers and half-length fingers, and a flexible grippy black rubber coating and a stiffer white rubber coating. Try some for a fit. Half fingers are good if you have long slim hands, because they your fingers won't get pinched.

Thanks Tim S. You help me so much man. I really appreciate your help and your very wise commantaires

High Power is a term for US NRA centre-fire rifle matches; the course of fire was originally based on service rifle shooting, with a mix of slow and rapid fire strings, shot prone, standing, and sitting or kneeling. Rifles are either service, or civilian "Match".

What Al was suggesting is that smallbore shooting is stylised, and sanitised comapred to military shooting, and offering a possible alternative for you.

yes I did that kind of shooting and a run down to. running from prone position at 600m run to 500m prone position again run to 400m kneel position runt to 300m seat position, run to 200m prone position rune to 100m stand position. It was a run down. We did those position without runing only one position at a time.

Yes I agree I'll do the 3 positions and may be long distance with other weapon. I'll see.

I too am ex forces, the RAF in my case, so have seen the differences first hand between that sort of shooting, as well as shooting ISSF 3 positions as well. I was already a target shooter when I joined so really went the other way. I never really enjoyed shooting the service rifle that much (Enfield L1A1 SLR in my day) but took part in the Queen Mary shoot for the Queens Medal at Bisley, but did not do as well s I did with both the fullbore Target Rifle or at smallbore. The QM is probably the same run (fast walk) down match that you would have shot in the Canadian services, except that Bisley is still in yards not meters. Coming from a perspective of that style of shooting, the move to ISSF 3 Positions is huge, about the only position that will be reasonably common between the two worlds is the prone, depending upon if you use a sling for support with the service rifle.

This big difference between what you are likely used to from shooting in the military to shooting ISSF style was behind my really strong suggestion to find a good smallbore club first, before you buy any equpment.

Alan

Thank and yes it was in yard not meter but most people talk in meters so I said meters. Same distance but in yard. I went to Connaught is a Canadian military competition CFSAC is open to teams of competitors from both the Regular Force and Primary Reserve Force of the Canadian Army (including the Canadian Rangers), Royal Canadian Navy, Royal Canadian Air Force, and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. If were qualify at that competition we were able to go to Bisley. I went there twice but never won a Queen medal. I was realy upset. But a lot of good shooter went there so. I was at the International competition sniper also at BFC Gagetown in Canada.

Anyway. Now I want to get on the civilian side to compete and have fun at the same time. I think the .22 lr is a good compromise between the military and civilian. I would do three positions which are closest to the armed forces.

Finally I'll see if there are other kinds of competition with longer distance and highest caliber I would also be interested. I'll see progressively.

You may have already found them, but after a quick google, the Fédération québécoise de tir has a site with a club finder, and apparently there is a club within Trois-rivieres. However, their site doesn't say if its rifle/pistol/shotgun or multi-disciplinary, although there's a few others in the Mauricie region, so if that one isn't a rifle club one of the others may not be too far away.


I would just echo the previous posters and seriously suggest you find a club where you can get started. Positional rifle is quite "kit heavy" and you do want to be sure it's your thing before spending big bucks. Through the club you might be able to find adverts for second hand rifles - good quality rimfire rifles will go on pretty much forever if they're cared for (as opposed to centre-fire rifles which usually need re-barrelling after ~5000rounds).
For what it's worth I shoot an Anschutz 1913 Supermatch with a System Gemini buttplate for Prone and the stock Anschutz plate for Standing/Kneeling. However, the rifle for you is the one that fits you best - it's all about what you shoot best with, not about what I, or Matt Emmons, my coach, or anyone else uses.