Loading That First Round.....

[mr alexander]

The slide on your 1911 is locked open and the chamber is empty. You

insert/seat a magazine with 5 rounds into the pistol. Before hitting the

slide stop, I was taught early on to first hold the hammer back. This was

advised for 2 reasons: for safety and to help preserve the trigger job

your gunsmith performed. Others I know simply pull and hold the trigger

all the way back and then release the slide forward with the slide

stop.


With my High Standard Victor, there is no way to hold the hammer back

when chambering the first round. Since it was new in 1977, I've always

used the "slingshot method" to close the slide, but I've kept my index

finger out of the trigger guard. Should I pull and hold the trigger back

before "slingshoting" the slide? Is there any gain in doing this? I have

not noticed any "harm" to the pistol over all of this time, but I do believe

an old dog can still learn new tricks! Please comment on this.... Thanks.

[Isabel1130]

I have never held the hammer back on my 45.

This may be an old school solution to prevent hammer follow, in guns which have the trigger set too light, but some of the gunsmiths need to comment on this practice.

My gunsmith told me if your hammer hooks are shallow, you will sometimes have issues with hammer follow.

I am really not sure there is any reason to do so, on a modern 1911 although I would suggest that it is probably unwise to deliberately drop the slide on a empty chamber as a matter of habit.

You can sling shot your slide if it helps chamber the first round consistently. It certainly helps with Marvels. Some shooters do this as a matter of habit with all their guns. It cant hurt. It may help your gun feed ammo better.

[C. Perkins]

I know several shooters who do a certain routine when getting the 1911 ready to fire.
Most will squeeze the trigger all the way back and release the slide.
As the slide goes forward the disconnector is reset, then release the trigger and it is ready to go.
Some do the above while holding the hammer back at the same time.
Was told it keeps from undue wear on the sear/hammer hooks ?
I do neither of these.
I witnessed a discharge once on holding the trigger back and releasing the slide.
Think it is a 1911 thing and does not concern any other type of pistol.
I may be wrong.
Hopefully a gunsmith can clear the air.

Clarence

[Dr. Jim]

Last year I acquired a Chow built 45 and it came with an original paper slip that said to always hold the trigger fully back when releasing the slide as this would protect the sear engagement from damage. I have always done so over the past thirty odd years. Only time my other gun failed was in the hands of a fellow shooter - back when it had the original trigger set up by Lew Muller - and the gun went full auto as he dropped the slide. I have since redone the trigger and the gun has never had a problem since . It may not be absolutely necessary but I consider it good practise as you are taking pressure off the sear and activating the disconnector, exactly as things operate when firing live rounds. Just my opinion as an old fart shooter.

Dr Jim

[Rover]

I'll second that...especially the old fart part.

[Dr. Jim]

I'll second that...especially the old fart part.

HA! Yo tambien amigo!

[CR10X]

This keeps coming up. Please do not hold the trigger when charging a 1911. Please hold the hammer if you like. If the hammer follows please find a good gunsmith, from this century if needed.

Think about this, if holding the trigger back protected the sear, then what keeps the hammer from following every time the slide is closed? That's right, the sear is released as the slide operates the disconnector and the hammer is catching on the sear. So how is that "protecting" the sear? It ain't, it's just protecting the gunsmith that has to set up the hammer hooks so short or the sear angles in such a way, or sear spring so light to get a good trigger pull that the inertia of the trigger actually trips the sear and causes hammer follow when the slide is dropped. And when that happens the sear does get "banged up" on that very necessary safety notch on the hammer.

Please stop and please stop promoting as it also violates the basic NRA safety rule about keeping your finger off the trigger. IPSC and other shooters run way less than 3.5 pound triggers and they cannot chamber with their fingers on the trigger. Now a days we have good hammers, sears, lightweight triggers and good disconnectors.

Any decent gunsmith should be able to give you a decent trigger without having to tell you to hold the trigger back. Please hold the hammer back if needed or it makes you feel better.

There, sorry I had to post this again.

Cecil

[wjcksn]

The practice of holding the hammer back or keeping the trigger depressed when loading a 1911 goes back to earlier times when the trigger shoes were made of steel instead of aluminum. The combination of a long, solid steel trigger and a 3.5 lb or lighter trigger pull could cause the hammer to be bumped off full cock and the hammer would follow the slide, that's why the old time gunsmiths recommended the practice of holding the trigger or hammer back. Lightwight aluminum triggers solved the problem.

Walt Jackson
Bull Shooters

[dronning]

Trigger depressed = unsafe

Pulling hammer back I believe is unnecessary in fact I've had people tell me never to pull hammer back without using the slide. It causes side wear on the hammer - not sure I buy this one either.

With trigger finger in a safe position I load the mag and rack the slide.

Dave

[GunRunner]

If the gun has a good safe trigger job, it will not follow even if slide is dropped on a empty chamber (not to be done except as a test) Most bullseye guns have the short commander hammers that can not be held back, therefore the best, most recommended and safest way is to just point down range and drop the slide release. I have never had issues doing this. The old saying keep your finger off the trigger till your ready to shoot came about for a reason.

[brent375hh]

Pressing the trigger with the slide locked back disconnects the inertia of the trigger from the sear on a 1911. When the slide hits home the whole gun moves forward a small amount, with a heavy steel trigger it can jar the sear out of the hammer hooks with a light trigger and the hammer half cock can bash into the sear. Lightweight triggers do help to eliminate this. Gunsmiths like Jimmy Clark & Bill Wilson advised to customers to press the trigger before dropping the slide, these guys were/are not exactly idiots when it comes to 1911 knowledge.

[Rover]

I'd sure like to hear from someone like Greg Derr or Brian Zins on this one.

Lots of firm opinions thrown out there....

[brent375hh]

I am not saying I press the trigger, because I don't any more. I either use a lightweight trigger or the Gold Cup sear with depressor spring. I know WHY the old timers pulled the trigger first. If you have an old Clark Longslide or a Bomar ribbed gun with a steel trigger and shoe, you might well understand slide inertia vs trigger inertia. It did cause hammer follow.

[Yiogo]

I don't think I'll be doing that anytime soon. Doesn't matter who recommends it. Yiogo

[big mouse]

With my High Standard .22 Pistol, I always hold the trigger all the way

back while using the "sling-shot" method to chamber the top round in the

magazine. I was told to do this by an old time pistolsmith for safety

reasons. Some will suggest that you should keep your finger off of the

trigger until you are actually ready to shoot. Why hold the trigger back

when closing the slide? According to that pistolsmith, you are holding the

trigger back when the slide is opening and closing during Timed and Rapid

Fire Shooting, whether you realize it or not. So, the same internal

mechanics apply and occur with respect to your pistol's fire control parts

whether you're shooting the gun or chambering the first round! According

to him, your gun's functioning the same way in both situations.

[Isabel1130]

"I was told to do this by an old time pistolsmith for safety

reasons"

At best, with the gun pointed down range, i would consider this to be a safety neutral affectation, but I fail to see how it would increase safety on the firing line.

[big mouse]

Isabel1130,

I do agree with you; one should always keep the muzzle of their pistol

pointed down range at all times. I think what that pistolsmith meant by

"safety reasons" was the avoidance of an accidental discharge at an

unexpected time. One of those can certainly be disconcerting to everyone

on the firing line! He advised that when holding the trigger back when

loading, the pistol's fire control parts were being put into "neutral", thus

avoiding any problems.

[Yiogo]

that if I saw anyone putting their finger on the trigger until they were ready to shoot I'd definitely would say something. If they continued, I'd leave never to return to that league. Yiogo

[Isabel1130]

that if I saw anyone putting their finger on the trigger until they were ready to shoot I'd definitely would say something. If they continued, I'd leave never to return to that league. Yiogo

I diagree. Bullseye shooters dry fire all the time. As long as the line is hot, and the gun is pointed in a safe direction, I am going to dry fire, and it is within the rules to do so.

Occasionally we have an early shot. Occasionally a slam fire. Not a big deal.

I think the finger off the trigger rule, is only appropriate for action pistol sports, where you are drawing from a holster, and moving with the gun in your hand.

[BenEnglishTX]

that if I saw anyone putting their finger on the trigger until they were ready to shoot I'd definitely would say something. If they continued, I'd leave never to return to that league. Yiogo

Cooper codified the "4 rules" in a martial context. I realize that pretty much the entire internet considers them holy writ, delivered from on high, engraved on stone tablets.

The concepts are sound but all the particulars, specifically the "finger off the trigger until the sights are on the target", do not apply to Conventional Pistol or to much of ISSF shooting.