TargetTalk

If you've had experience with any of these pistols I'd like very much to here your negsative comments about them to factor into my decisdion making process. Please do not recommend a used pistol as I do no want to buy a used pistol. I will also be looking for a large LH grip. Thanks.

Gehman GP1
FAS 609
Aeron 101 Spider
TAU 8 Match
Walther LP300

If I can't get one of these in a LH grip the secondary option is
Alfa Proj
TAU 7 Match.
I've owned an Alfa Proj and loved it, but the regulator went bad early on--perhaps a one off situation.

Again, thanks for information shared.
Brian

Let me start the reply by saying that you've left out some of the best pistols for this discipline (except the walter 300), and gone to a "second tier" list.
Don't get me wrong, they also shoot good, but many lack some adjustments (to name a few, grip angle, exit velocity, etc.), and in some cases they have a inferior finish to them.
They also devalue much faster than a top level one (see the buy and sell part of this forum).
My first piece of advise, since you don't want to get a second hand pistol, is to save a bit more cash and get one of this pistols:

1. Styer LP10 or LP10E
2. Morini 162 or 162E
3. Walter 400 or 300
4. Pardini K10 or K12

This four (eight) models alone account for 90+% of the pistols seen in a world cup, with the first two, (LP10(E) and 162(E)) being by far the more common ones.

If you can, I would recommend you try as much of them as you possibly can, since the choice has a great part of personal preference.

My two cents
Hope this helps.

The Hammerli AP40 is less expensive and would make an excellent first air pistol. It is also superior to the ones on your list.

Joel

joel wrote:The Hammerli AP40 is less expensive and would make an excellent first air pistol. It is also superior to the ones on your list.

Joel

Who carries them here in the US? Larry's has some Hammerli. Bennelli Kite could be a choice, too.

Brian Lafferty wrote:If you've had experience with any of these pistols I'd like very much to here your negsative comments about them to factor into my decisdion making process.

Walther LP300

I personally hate this pistol as it was responsible for developing 99% of the bad habit I had until I switched to the Steyr and I have to undo all those habits. I do not mean it is a bad pistol, but to me it is horrible, and to me it is because of the balance distribution. I almost quit the sport, thinking that ALL AP are like the LP300, until someone let me handle an LP1.

Obviously Walther knew something was wrong because they soon developed the Walther LP300XT which has a different design of barrel weight placement, and in world class competition they started winning. They still sell their LP300, with minor modification, called the LP300 Club. In any case, I think Walther knows that it is developing a line that cannot be improved much further, thus when they come out with LP400 it is a totally different design.

On the other hand, in the right person's hand, the LP300 Club CAN be extremely competitive, as shown by the recent World Cup competitions.

Since obviously you are looking at second tier pistols, I would suggest you to try LP300XT. Walther still produces it, so you can buy it new.

rmca wrote: 1. Styer LP10 or LP10E
2. Morini 162 or 162E
3. Walter 400 or 300
4. Pardini K10 or K12

This four (eight) models alone account for 90+% of the pistols seen in a world cup, with the first two, (LP10(E) and 162(E)) being by far the more common ones.

If you can, I would recommend you try as much of them as you possibly can, since the choice has a great part of personal preference.

My two cents
Hope this helps.

Don't forget the MatchGuns.

conradin wrote:

rmca wrote: 1. Styer LP10 or LP10E
2. Morini 162 or 162E
3. Walter 400 or 300
4. Pardini K10 or K12

This four (eight) models alone account for 90+% of the pistols seen in a world cup, with the first two, (LP10(E) and 162(E)) being by far the more common ones.

If you can, I would recommend you try as much of them as you possibly can, since the choice has a great part of personal preference.

My two cents
Hope this helps.

Don't forget the MatchGuns.

A bit over engineered for my taste, but no doubt a first class pistol.

I believe styer still makes the LP2, witch is where the LP10 gets it's designed from. It's also cheaper than an LP10.

But I stand with my initial post, if you are thinking of buying new, spend money only once and get a top class pistol.

Cheers

Here ya go:

http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/show ... rOfPages=6

It appears that the original poster has some price considerations, since his list all come in well under Steyr, Morini, etc. We should respect that.
1. I handled an Aeron Spyder when TGAG first offered them. It was overall a very competent piece except that the trigger had an annoying little wobble.
2. The Gehmann GP 1 is a rebranded Matchguns MG1.
3. Externally, the FAS 609 seems very similar to the Benelli Kite. If so, I would put it on a very high plateau. An engineer friend a few years ago declared it to be the best designed air pistol he had ever seen. Construction not quite up to Steyr standards, but you're not planning to pound nails with it.

I have no firsthand experience with the others, and I'd be very curious to handle the TAU if they even exist in this country.

As to Rover's insistent recommendation of an FWB 65, unless they can be dry fired without damage (can any spring-piston gun?) I don't think they are more than a curiosity.

Tau's do exist, but I'm not sure how good the supply chain is. The MIT pistol team has quite a collection of them, and they work fine. My wife and I both have one.

These guys:

http://www.topgun-airguns.com/pistols-fromCZ.html

were recommended to me by the factory as a possible US source of parts, and they still list several models.

If you get one, here is info on the dry fire adapter I invented:

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=33509

Sorry, my lack of clarification. I was referring to the TAU MK8 (not TAU 8). I have contacted the factory about buying one (under $750 Euros on their web page) and have never received a reply.

The TAU 7 is a wonderful entry level air pistol, I think in many ways superior to the Izh 46. With Doug's dry fire adaptor, it gets even better.

Thanks for all the useful information. I'm going to try ordering a LH P-44 grip and sight extender (required when using the P-44 grip) for my P-11 Piccolo. That will give me a a longer sighting distance akin to most manufacturer's compact pistols.

I find it difficult to see why you would prefer a new somewhat shoddy AP that takes a 40% hit in depreciation on firing the first shot to a used top of the line gun that will probably appreciate, never mind superior performance.

BTW FWB claims you CAN dry fire the M65 and I would rather have one than ANY of the guns you mentioned merely because of its quality. No one can tell me that at the club level and above they are not competitive. I just threw it out there for the fun of it, though, since so many on here have taken a long swig of the PCP Kool-Ade.

"...so many on here have taken a long swig of the PCP Kool-Ade."

Other than cost, what is this near-pathological objection to PCP? Can you name a sport in which competitors don't seek out technologies that make their task easier? I don't feel the need to duplicate what Don Nygord experienced, and I don't feel guilty because I don't have to operate a long side- or under-lever before every shot.

william wrote: As to Rover's insistent recommendation of an FWB 65, unless they can be dry fired without damage (can any spring-piston gun?) I don't think they are more than a curiosity.

FWB65 absolutely cannot be dry fired. Rover's 90 can.

Rover wrote:so many on here have taken a long swig of the PCP Kool-Ade.

1. Not everyone can find a place where CO2 is available to be filled. My neighborhood does not.
2. Probably laziness. Pneumatic Spring Air Pistol requires using your non shooting hand..we are in a sport about shooting things, not pumping iron!
3. PCP Scuba tank is easier to find and scuba shop is easy to located also. Of course if you live in Nebraska I would not know if that is the case.
4. Maybe some of you are masochistic and prefer pumping air into the PCP using a Hillman, or nostalgic about pumping air into bicycle tires. Of course if indeed you cannot locate a Scuba shop in Nebraska, then you will have to hand pump.

Simply put, it is convenience or laziness.

There is no significant record changes during the entire history of the air pistol world championships that indicate a change of pistol type has occurred. For example, I cannot figure out at one point, whether FWB2 or FWB65 was used to win a championship. They co-existed at the time.
Same thing when CO2 was gradually replaced by PCP, no significant records were set. I, for one, cannot tell who won with a LP1CP or a LP10.

I fill my P-11 from a scuba tank that lasts me months. The scuba shop owner is a life long archer, so we always have an interesting discussion. Sometimes he charges me $3-$5 for a tank fill, sometimes not. Maybe it depends on the quality of my conversation on any given visit.

I've been doing postal pistol matches, so taking the tank with me isn't yet an issue. I will be getting a Hammerli AR20 in the near future and hope to join a club here in the Boston area with active air pistol and rifle programs. Would also like to try prone smallbore again (still have my Mossberg 144LS in pristine condition) after 40+ years, but 50 meter instead of 50 feet. If need be, I'll get a small used scuba tank to take to competitions.

BTW, I can pump the Vredstein tyres on my racing bicycle from 0 to 140psi in under a dozen easy strokes with my floor pump.
Good shooting all.

I replied to the above, but it somehow disappeared. I guess there is a PCP loving moderator.

Anyway, Conradin, according to FWB the M65 CAN be dry fired. I can't say I'm enthusiastic about the idea.

As far as my "near pathological" aversion to PCPs...I own and compete with one, but I don't feel it has any real advantage over other types. If you think yours does, then be happy. I'm sure you're winning with it.

I have both a Baikal 46m and a Pardini K10, and owing to many modifications to the 46m it weighs close enough to the K10 that I don't perceive it being inordinately heavy to shoot. But I prefer the PCP fuelled K10 for competition because it's easier. I prefer the 46m for home practice in the evening when I don't want the loud bang of the PCP pistol bothering my neighbours. More and more I've shifted lately to using the K10 and just shooting during daytime, when neighbours aren't going to notice. That's mostly owing to the latest grip I made for the K10, which is pretty much perfect, a significant improvement on the one I carved for the 46m... so by that logic I might shoot the 46m more if I went ahead and made an even better grip for that - experience is teaching me a lot about carving grips. But the ease of pumping up a couple of cylinders with my Gehmann pump and just having them available to shoot without further effort for the week is too tempting, so I'll stick with the PCP. The lever action of my 46m is smooth and easy, the effort doesn't harm my shooting at all, but it is an extra thing to do which might be distracting... though I guess that wasn't a factor when I competed with that gun. It was considerably heavier then so the weight bothered me more at the time.

To each his own I guess, but if I might speak plainly; if you're that weak that use of a hand pump is difficult, perhaps it'd be a good idea to hit the weights, do some significant lifting, as your apparent weakness might be holding back your shooting results. I say this from recent experience of increasing the level of workout intensity and finding it much easier to hold the sights on target. My useful (non-shaking) hold duration has increased and my count of 10's per session with it.

Pumping up a couple of cylinders to 250bar is 5 minutes' work and I don't raise a sweat, can shoot right away after pumping with no change in my average. Nothing masochistic about it, unless I were significantly weaker or in some other way disabled, in which case of course a tank would seem the obvious choice.

Rover wrote: Anyway, Conradin, according to FWB the M65 CAN be dry fired. I can't say I'm enthusiastic about the idea.

That's why you can always find the seal replacement kit available in many stores.