TargetTalk

Hello All,

I've chosen the above mentioned two models for 25m pistol.
Main question: Which one should I take?

Here are my considerations:

Price:
Both would cost nearly the same, so 1:1

Handling:
-Since I shoot both, standard and rapid fire I’m interested in how easily the trigger can be switched from two stage trigger to one stage.
-The SSP loses one point because of the sensible magazine
-The MG2 also loses one point because of the 2x cocking what I will forget always in the first few month..

Reliability:
-Also the reliability is a main point – I think the MG2 is more sensible then the SSP is.
-Both had some teething troubles at the beginning but seems that it’s all solved now.
-Point to the SSP also in case of any damages -> the Walther service is the best and fastest I know,
From the Match Guns Importer I heard streaky reviews..

Battery:
-MG2 has a normal battery, SSP has a rechargeable battery which needs a USB port to load.
-> So if I forget to load the battery, I could A: Simply put in a new battery in the MG2 or B: search for a computer for the SSP battery.

Sights:
The rear sights of the MG2 are perfectly clean, the SSP has two screws that could distract.

Cleaning:
I think the SSP is a little more complicated but would be great if anyone could make a statement here.


So, that’s what I have been considering.
Did I forgot anything?
Do you have any further hints for me what to consider?
What’s your general opinion?

Buy a S&W Model 41 with 5.5" barrel.

I have had both and they are equally capable. I think you should spend more time concentrating on getting the right grip.

Neon21 wrote:Did I forgot anything?

Yes, perhaps to have a look at what all the top shooters in the world are using and then change your mind and get a Pardini!

While slightly tongue in cheek, you will notice that the SSP is not visible at top level Rapid Fire, a small number are using MG though.

Neon21 wrote:Main question: Which one should I take?

Test both and take what you like.

Neon21 wrote: Reliability:
-Also the reliability is a main point – I think the MG2 is more sensible then the SSP is.

All pistols have problems and you have to solve more problems if you shoot rapid fire (hobby level).
And you have to solve a lot of problems if you do 15000-30000 shots per year (national team).

Neon21 wrote: Battery:
-MG2 has a normal battery, SSP has a rechargeable battery which needs a USB port to load.
-> So if I forget to load the battery, I could A: Simply put in a new battery in the MG2 or B: search for a computer for the SSP battery.

It is not a problem.
USB chargers starting from 4 Euros.

Neon21 wrote: Sights:
The rear sights of the MG2 are perfectly clean, the SSP has two screws that could distract.

Pardini has 4 screws. I don't see any problem here.

Neon21 wrote: So, that’s what I have been considering.
Did I forgot anything?
Do you have any further hints for me what to consider?
What’s your general opinion?

If you don't understand and don't want to understand how your pistol works - you need service not far away from you (Walther).

FYI:

Emerson Duarte (Brazil) established national rapid fire record with Walther in 2012 (590 points).

Spanish national racord in rapid fire belongs to Jorge Llames with Matchguns as I know (591).

I have a 11 series MG2 non electric I like it only problem I had was a broken trigger spring as for service the importer enough said. I had better luck getting the spring right from Match Guns.

Rover wrote:Buy a S&W Model 41 with 5.5" barrel.

Evidence, if not proof, that poor old Rover's previous post got it wrong. http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=39665

All that beer has hunted down and killed his fittest brain cells.

If you're serious into rapid fire, there is no getting around a Pardini.
You should put that on top of the list and then see if the other two guns match up... and in my opinion they don't...
It´s also a very nice gun for standard pistol.

If you're serious into rapid fire, there is no getting around a Pardini.

Really not true. The latest series RF modified MG2 shows amazing recoil recovery, way better than any Pardini I've ever shot (and I do have an RF Pardini). Still, thrice as many moving parts in a MG2.

Tycho wrote: Still, thrice as many moving parts in a MG2.

And in there lies one of the biggest problems with MatchGuns... There is a acronym, KISS (Keep It Simple Silly (or Stupid)), that is often used in engineering to describe something that could work as well or even better with less parts.

I´m not saying that the SSP and the MG2 are bad guns, far from it, but there is one that in my opinion surpasses them, the Pardini... And for proof just look at the percentage of Pardinis in a rapid fire match, compared to any other guns.

Now if you tried all three and perform better with the MG2, then by all means use it.

But that was not the initial point... The question(s) was what would be better for rapid fire and standard pistol, the SSP or the MG2.

And for me to answer properly I have to say that that list is missing the pistol that most consider to be the best choice for rapid fire, the Pardini.

rmca wrote: And for me to answer properly I have to say that that list is missing the pistol that most consider to be the best choice for rapid fire, the Pardini.

I think it is "Conscious Inertia" (stereotype). We think if top shooter uses pistol X then we must use pistol X too.

Second thing - Pardini hadn't really serious rivals on the market (1996-2006) and the answer what to choose was obvious . Now we have more options but old stereotypes are in our heads ("Pardini - what else?").

I am sure that top shooters can shoot same results with any normal rf pistol (MG2 RF, CM 22M RF, Pardini RF).


Unfortunately I didn't one photo in Munich. One team leader showed to me a box full of defective electronic modules (Pardini). I hope he got replacement.

Neon21 wrote:-Point to the SSP also in case of any damages -> the Walther service is the best and fastest I know,
From the Match Guns Importer I heard streaky reviews..

No better service than from Matchguns!
Mail them and they help you.
Walther does nothing for the normal shooter.

Does the pardini have an adjustable grip? MG2 and SSP do.

In RF, the first and most important quality for a pistol is reliability. If your pistol fail you are out even if this pistol has an amazing recoil recovery.

Up to now, almost all electronic trigger have shown a low reliability (exception are the single shots Morini AP 162EI and FP 84E).
And all manufacturers (including Morini) had problems with their first series of electronic triggers and had to change/upgrade it several times before having a reliable solution (the last one was Steyr who suppressed the LP50E from the catalog waiting for a new version).

With this in mind, I wouldn't consider the SSP-E.

The MG2E is longer on the market, so less potential problems.

The Pardini, even if there are still problems with its E trigger, has proven to work and to be able to win even if the MG2 has a better, amazing recoil recovery.

ruig wrote:

rmca wrote: And for me to answer properly I have to say that that list is missing the pistol that most consider to be the best choice for rapid fire, the Pardini.

I think it is "Conscious Inertia" (stereotype). We think if top shooter uses pistol X then we must use pistol X too.

While that might be the case with some amateur shooters, I don't think the majority of world class shooters will go with what someone else uses. And definitely not at world championship/Olympic level.

ruig wrote: I am sure that top shooters can shoot same results with any normal rf pistol (MG2 RF, CM 22M RF, Pardini RF).

Agree. But if they can, why don't they? Pardini doesn't sponsor all of them...

ruig wrote: Unfortunately I didn't one photo in Munich. One team leader showed to me a box full of defective electronic modules (Pardini). I hope he got replacement.

Never said they are bullet proof... :)

ruig wrote:Unfortunately I didn't one photo in Munich. One team leader showed to me a box full of defective electronic modules (Pardini).

Did you notice that 3 of the 4 Pardinis in the RF final were mechanical?

j-team wrote:

ruig wrote:Unfortunately I didn't one photo in Munich. One team leader showed to me a box full of defective electronic modules (Pardini).

Did you notice that 3 of the 4 Pardinis in the RF final were mechanical?

Yes.

Record holder Klimov switched to Pardini too (mechanics) due to lack of normal support from Benelli.

Semiconductors are damaged by shaking (especially in 4 seconds series). The same electronics worked fine with .22 short.

Pardini removed SP electronics from their demo-shelf in Munich. Only mechanics.

It seems to me that we need separate shock-buffer for circuit board.

In the meantime top shooters are testing new circuit board (v3).

When I said earlier that I'd had both I meant mechanical versions. Sorry about that. Can you adjust the grip angle on a pardini or is it a cut-and-paste job to get it to point.

Does all of the above mean you should go with the S&W M 41?

thanks all for your answers.

First, I'm only partial into RF and don’t want to put all my energy into this since RF is not very common here
I will focus on standard since there are more competitions, though it’s only for men up to the German Masters.

Pardini is good but way too expensive for me, it costs about 2500€ new and there are nearly no used one around. (and if, you can nearly get a new one by the price the used..).
I also can’t/won’t spend 1000€ more only because top athletes have them..

The S&W combines everything I don’t want on my pistol – I really want to stick on the two models since they were feeling best in my Hand.

@gunnery: The support of Match Guns, especially of Stefano is very good as I heard, but from Gehmann, which is the distributor for MG in Germany and also does the service for them, I heard mixed storys, good and bad..
Sending a weapon to Italy is so complicated and expensive that I don’t want to risk this.
I’m very satisfied with the Walther service all the time – maybe also because I have contact persons and always premium service cards with my weapons..

@ ruig: ah thanks for the hint with the USB chargers/adapter, I have about 7 of this at home but didn’t thought of them.
Regarding the understanding of the weapon – I know how it basically works and how to fix it, but with electronic and complex parts, I think the risk of sending it to the manufacturer is a bit higher as for a GSP for example..

My personal conclusion of this thread until now: Not many differences so I will choose after I shot them both.