RWS R-10 4.49mm Rifle grade

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Thu May 30, 2013 12:44 am

Anyone knows if there is any shop carrying the RWS Diabolo R-10 4.49mm Rifle grade pellets? I have to order them from Germany all the time and frankly I am tired of it with the shipping and the customs delay. So I wonder if there is any shop here in the USA that carries them (as opposed to "we will order them from RWS or from Europe).

Tim C · Post by **Tim C** » Thu May 30, 2013 10:52 am

In Champion's Choice 2013 catalog, page 64, item number 2315015: RWS Rifle R-10 Match Rifle 500 pellet tin (0.53g) (4.49MM) listed for $14.50

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Thu May 30, 2013 12:08 pm

Why would you go to that much trouble and expense to find a pellet almost
certain to NOT be the most accurate in your pistol (!)?

If you tell me it's because the test target with the gun used that diameter, I'll bitch slap you!

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Thu May 30, 2013 4:43 pm

Rover wrote:Why would you go to that much trouble and expense to find a pellet almost
certain to NOT be the most accurate in your pistol (!)?

If you tell me it's because the test target with the gun used that diameter, I'll bitch slap you!

Yes, test target; but I also did batch testing and confirmed it was good. The pistol's diet has been 4,49mm since day one that I have it. I don't recall ever feeding it 4,5mm other than during the batch testing process. I did try 4,48mm and it was no good.

In any case it is very cheap in Germany to get the pellets, if you decide to buy multiple items, then the shipping will offset whatever extra cost you have to pay for a retailer here. The only problem is the time: customs will delay it.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Thu May 30, 2013 4:48 pm

Let's see what the pellet manufacturer has to say about it all:

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=17682

brent375hh · Post by **brent375hh** » Fri May 31, 2013 11:14 am

Did you try Neal Stepp?

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Fri May 31, 2013 7:52 pm

Rover wrote:Let's see what the pellet manufacturer has to say about it all:

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=17682

Yes, great article.

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Fri May 31, 2013 7:54 pm

brent375hh wrote:Did you try Neal Stepp?

I never did ask him about that. Eventually I found out that I am better off buying from Germany from a shop that was pretty popular with Olympians. Shipping cost is not that a big deal if you buy enough,.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Fri May 31, 2013 9:07 pm

In all my testing, JSB pellets consistently (meaning every single time) produced the smallest groups.

They are available here in Scottsdale at Top Gun for less than $10 a tin.

Go figure.

jliston48 · Post by **jliston48** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:18 am

Surely it is obvious that if the import freight cost is acceptable and you have no local supplier so you HAVE to import and time is a problem, order your new shipment well in advance and order up BIG! Don't wait till your supplies are low.

I can't believe that there is not an acceptable alternative as a result of your testing because there are so many good quality pellets available. How much larger is the next best group?

I assume that this is known but if not, when you are assessing air pistol accuracies of less than 3 millimetres (centre to centre), you must fire test groups with a large number of shots (at least 20 and as many as 50) to be able to discriminate between the results of the particular variable you are testing (whether pellet weight or diameter, muzzle velocity, cylinder pressure, etc). By all means fire 5-shot groups but leave a backing target in place to show the aggregate (total) group size at the end of the test.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:53 pm

" By all means fire 5-shot groups but leave a backing target in place to show the aggregate (total) group size at the end of the test."

What a good idea; I never thought of doing it that way, although I do it for adjusting my zero.

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:57 pm

jliston48 wrote:By all means fire 5-shot groups but leave a backing target in place to show the aggregate (total) group size at the end of the test.

Awesome suggestion, thanks!

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:16 pm

I recalled I have RWS R-10 4,48, 4,49, 4,5. I had a good vise. I shot groups of five twice each. 4,48 is not that good, 4,49 and 4,5 is virtually the same. I did not use any other brand. Since the pistol always took 4,49mm anyways, I see no reason to change.

One thing I found it funny about batch testing. One of the groupings I intentionally set it up so the pellets aimed straight into the inner 10. Naturally they all made it into the x ring. I proceeded to post the picture of the target in a blog of mine and claimed that my teddy bear shot it.

Speaking of testing card, I do know that what ammo has been picked is not necessarily the best, but merely the ones that happen to work. Because if the brand and head size were stated to be the best by a certain brand and model, that would take a lot of labor and I am sure RWS would pay quite a bit of money to a lot of manufacturer to make the ammo as "official". What I know for sure from the target paper is that RWS 4,49mm from that particular batch did work well.

One of the major reason why I notice this is because the best groupings I have using my LP-1 is, believe it or not, 4,5mm Gamo Magnum. The quality control of Gamo is horrible, but that LP-1 just LOVES those Magnum.

Another reason is that My Morini CM84E test card was fired with Lapua Midas, and Midas is supposedly a mid grade product. You would expect they will use Tenex to test the CM84E all the time because most people use that for major competition, but no, they used Midas. For my personal experience, the Lapua X-act "felt" the best on my Morini (with the least recoil), but the grouping is the same as Eley Tenex. Tenex is slightly better than Match, which in turns has the same grouping as Center-X.

The difference between the grouping is noticeable, but very very minute. Unless you are so good that you are always hitting 10s and is concerned about how many of them get into the x ring, it really does not matter.

For me I am a beginner, so I just stick with what everyone uses, hence the Tenex for competition and simulated match. I use Eley Match for practice.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:48 pm

Everyone doesn't use 10X in Free; that would just be stupid. Try some CCI Standard and then let me know what your scores are (comparo).

C. Perkins · Post by **C. Perkins** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:04 pm

To keep with Rovers comment.

I just averaged my free pistol scores at 496.
The one time I used 10X over my usual Eley match pistol it was 499.
Not enough difference in my hand.
Saving it for smallbore prone to get the most for the money.

Just saying.

Clarence

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:12 pm

I don't use CCI, personal preference. I was very disappointed with their .22l and .22s. I switched to Eley .22s and all problems solved. Also there is the wax problem. While my Morini can be replaceable, the rest of my free pistols are not, and one of them I consider it priceless, another one is very difficult to repair if parts are needed. All parts have to be made by the gunsmith.

I will feed them the best because I am more concerned about what the ammo did to them than the performance. Many times some of these .22l and .22s fail to fire. Also the first time my Morini has a "hang fire", it was a CCI .22lr.

I never have that problem with Tenex or Match. I also noticed that Eley burnt the cleanest, and CCI is not.

I have never batch tested a CCI .22lr on the Morini. I don't plan to.

I would recommend CCI to anyone who has limited budget and who plan to shoot A LOT. Just clean the pistol often afterwards. Skim the wax if you feel it is too thick, or uneven. But never use them on a pistol which is considered NOT replaceable.

I do have three boxes of CCI, but those are communal ammo that I donated for our club and our members are free to use them. They are, after all, better than the big Remington box that we also have.

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:15 pm

C. Perkins wrote:To keep with Rovers comment.

I just averaged my free pistol scores at 496.
The one time I used 10X over my usual Eley match pistol it was 499.
Not enough difference in my hand.
Saving it for smallbore prone to get the most for the money.

Just saying.

Clarence

I understand the cost effectiveness issue, but every ammo has its own feel when you fire, such as recoil. I just want to get used to one that I know is good at stick with it.

C. Perkins · Post by **C. Perkins** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:27 pm

I completely understand what you are saying.

One thing about these disciplines is that if you can afford to feed them and you are confident then that is all that counts.

Good shooting.

Clarence

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:22 am

I would rather much prefer Lapua as far as feel is concerned, on my pistol they almost always have no recoil as if I were firing an air pistol. But my CM84E simply does not like Lapua, mostly because the "wax" is too thin.

To load the Eley on my Morini I have to give it a little bit of a push, but for the Lapua you can just drop it into the chamber, it fits so well it almost feels loose.

I don't know the reasons, but the end result is that while the groupings are close to each other, Lapua frequently gives me a "hang fire" or whatever you want to call it. Usually at the rate of 1 out of 40. Not acceptable of course. Eley never has that problem.

So I have to sacrifice my preference in feel in exchange for reliability. I actually do not like the recoil from the Eley. I just have to get used to it and I have since get used to it.

bpscCheney · Post by **bpscCheney** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:51 am

I've had misfires with every ammo ut I've ever used. I know that this failure rate is significantly lower when I shoot Eley. Yet even with Tenex I have had .22lr rounds that the firing pin will hit and leave a perfect strike and not go off, I rotate the round then it fires on the second hit. And I completely agree that Tenex burns very cleanly but Eley Sport is dirtier than government issued Remington .22lr Standard Velocity (and that stuff is dirty). Wax build up is a little worse IMO from Tenex because it uses so much of it but it is easily cleaned out.