Hämmerli AP20

Funny Farmer · Post by **Funny Farmer** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:28 am

..has anybody shot it yet? Any opinions?

Walther tried the vertical tank design several years ago but dropped it. I assume it places the point of balance way back. Does this actually help ongoing shooters? You can also flip it into the forward position on this gun, so this looks like an interesting gimmick.

I also wonder whether there is a chance of fitting this gun into a Steyr grip?

Robert

joel · Post by **joel** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:31 am

Looks like you have a choice of angle.

Joel
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ghostrip · Post by **ghostrip** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:24 pm

it seems to accept walther 3d memory grips (from lp400?)/ they are listed as acceptable accessories.

John C · Post by **John C** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:07 pm

I think the only previous designs to use a vertical tank were CO2 pistols, Feinwerkbau and Walther. For CO2 pistols, the nature of the gas means that a vertical tank will reduce some of the well known issues with CO2. I don't know of any compressed air pistols that use such a setup.

I think it's great that the manufacturers are coming out with more and more entry level pistols. They're probably realizing that the price points of their flagship products are reaching the point where it's a serious barrier to new and junior shooters.

-John

ghostrip · Post by **ghostrip** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:10 pm

walther lp201 has that same vertical pcp setup.

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:21 pm

I chatted with Janet Raab at Ft Benning last weekend about this pistol.
It is a compressed air tank.

The vertical positioning of the tank is for younger shooters to get the balance point back. As they grow, then move to horizontal.
I was impressed as the price point is about $850 as I recall ... better in line for clubs to use these as beginner/intermediate pistols.

j-team · Post by **j-team** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:29 am

So, back to the original question.

Has anyone shot, handled or even just seen one in the flesh yet?

If yes, comments or opinions please?

jipe · Post by **jipe** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:22 am

The pistol appeared in Germany a couple of weeks ago, so I think that it is too early to have feedback.

flolo · Post by **flolo** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:53 pm

Got the chance to try a few shots with it today, feels quite ok. Grip is very nice, especially for being plastic and usable for both hands. What i didn't like was the sandblast- finish(at least it seems to be ), which looks dirty right from the beginning... But on the other hand, that's already a good surface for paint.

fcosby · Post by **fcosby** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:04 am

I've got the chance to shots several times. So far it has been ok.

______________
"When attacking enemies unexpectedly use concealed weapons."

Ulrich Eichstädt · Post by **Ulrich Eichstädt** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:16 am

I would like to add "officially" some links to further information:

Manual, Trailer, technical data etc

http://youtu.be/5vPI1_AXJNQ Change of the barrel jackets

http://youtu.be/gd7F76bBYwo Change tank position

http://youtu.be/7XzX1DGcyDE Change of the grip

Of course some of you remembered well: this downward position of the tank was already implemented in the WALTHER LP201. But with the Hämmerli AP 20 it is
- 200 instead of 300 bar, therefore it is lighter as the "old one" (walls are thinner)
- no manometer implemented, it's separate like with former Hämmerli models as the AP 480
The main (and nearly only) reason for this shorter tank was the possibility to move the tank parallel to the barrel, but also that it fits into the ISSF box with the downward tank. We believe that this more backward point of gravity helps younger shooters.

The first test reviews of the Hämmerli AP 20 are on its way. VISIER, the german magazine, has published a very positive test in its may issue (91 out of 100 points, "excellent!"), CIBLES in france and DWJ in germany will follow soon. Of course the precision is a bit below the top match air pistols, but the approach was to deliver an affordable air pistol for beginners and clubs.

Ulrich Eichstädt
press and public relations of the Umarex/Walther-group

641 · Post by **641** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:28 pm

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:09 pm

I owned one of the Walthers. John C is right about the CO2. I found it a pain with the vertical tank since you could not comfortably rest your hand on the bench. Other than that, nothing special....

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:29 pm

Why does Walther create an air pistol and branded as Haemmerli? Haemmerlli record in AP is pretty ordinary. Why don't they just scrapped the whole idea and make all the AP with the Walther brand? Its not like Walther has never used CO2 before. Trying to market Haemmerli as a beginner brand seemed to be an insult.

ghostrip · Post by **ghostrip** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:51 pm

may i ask mr ulrich how less accurate ap20 is, lets say compared to lp400? if a junior grows with it and buys the accessories (grip, cylinders with manometer etc) how much he/she should expect to lose to the top guns?

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:06 pm

If your kid loses, feel free to flog him until he develops a winning attitude!

ghostrip · Post by **ghostrip** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:49 pm

flog my kid or mr ulrich ? (just kidding) i just wonder how less accurate the ap40 is

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:20 pm

I haven't shot it, but I'm certain it's as accurate as anything out there.

They've said it here many times, "You can't buy points."

Having a gun that fits and is comfortable will pay big dividends, though.

bpscCheney · Post by **bpscCheney** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:54 pm

My Alfa Proj is just as accurate as my FWB so I think it's irrelevant to the brand. ;)

tirpassion · Post by **tirpassion** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:26 pm

Hello everybody,

I had the opportunity to shoot one because we bought two for our club.

First of all it is absolutely different in feeling in hand, shooting sensation, sights compared to a Hämmerli AP40. So there is no question of imagining the AP20 to have the same lineage as that of the AP40. It is totally different in conception.

To me, it seems to be quite fragile (it does not convey the message of being robust you know. You feel the difference when you take up your usual AP just after, be it Morini, Pardini, Steyr, AP40 etc. etc). Off course it is a lower line product and I understand it.
The plastic grip is quite functional (I will not be more enthusiastic) but the feeling of the hi grip of Hämmerli is better.
The trigger is nice once you adjust the sear setting. The sights are also pretty nice and fully adjustable (even the width of the rear sight is adjustable which is a positive point).

I did not fiddle with the factory settings of the distribution of the trigger weight and shot about 30/35 shots each with the cylinder in vertical and horizontal position.
- The reaction of the weapon at shot break is pretty good. It has a light muzzle flip but very interestingly a constant vertical muzzle flip (the morini kind of muzzle flip). It was pleasant to shoot.
- With the cylinder in vertical position the CG is definitely towards the rear side and hence it feels lighter. So it should be good for younger shooters. However, I personally prefer the cylinder in horizontal position for the better stability of the sight picture.
- What I do not like personally are the colourful barrel shrouds.
- Precision wise, the AP20 has nothing to envy the big names. I am convinced that it is capable of shooting excellent scores in the hands of a good shooter. It is a nice pistol for a beginner who can evolve positively with it before graduating to a better one (a more robust one). My question is how will it last / live with time with frequent use. Time will only tell...

regards