TargetTalk

Are you supposed to have a safety flag in the breach and the muzzle of FP and AP? Can you just use weed eater line or do you have to buy a special one.

Thanks,

Dwight

The rule requires one continuous flag which ensures that a pellet is not in the barrel. Two flags, one from each end, does not do that. Weed eater line will work.

FP just needs a breech flag.

The following is from the latest ISSF interpretations:-

SAFETY FLAGS, RULE 6.2.2.2
The 2013 ISSF Rules require the use of “safety flags” in all rifles and pistols. The use of safety flags demonstrates the high priority that the ISSF places on practicing the highest standards of gun safety. The following guidelines regarding the use of safety flags apply:

1. Safety Flags. In 2013, athletes may use any type of safety flag that complies with these standards (color, full barrel length for air guns).
2. Color. Safety flags must be of a bright color that Range Officers can easily see at a distance. Fluorescent orange or a similar bright color is recommended.
3. Air Guns. Safety flags used in air rifles or air pistols must be full-length lines that extend out of both ends of the barrel. The easiest way to prepare air gun safety flags/lines is to cut lengths of plastic trimmer line 2.0 mm – 2.3 mm (.080” - .090”) in diameter that are long enough to extend about 10 cm – 15 cm out of each end of air rifle or air pistol barrels.
4. ISSF Gun Safety Emblems. The ISSF is obtaining a large supply of two-sided safety emblems that can be folded and attached to the breech (action) end of safety lines to make them readily visible to Range Officers. These flags will be available for sale in the ISSF Shop and at 2013 ISSF Championships.
5. Safety Flags for .22 Caliber Guns. Safety flags used in .22 cal. rifles or pistols can be either commercial safety flags or safety flags constructed by attaching an ISSF Gun Safety Flag to a 15 cm – 20 cm length of heavier plastic trimmer line.

I went to Home Depot and got the cheapest orange line they had. It is nice and smooth. I have a Morini 162 EI so I had discovered what a PITA it was to get the line past the muzzle brake going either direction. Here is what I did. I cut off a piece of line that was plenty long enough to start with. Then a very gently heated the first 4 inches on each end over my electric stove, and took the curl out of the line. It seems that the line wants to be straight naturally to at least some extent. I used my hands to straighten it the rest of the way. Wear gloves, don't get the line all that hot, and be careful, I am pretty sure you could start a nice fire or mess up your wife's fancy cook top. I sharpened on end with my pocket knife to leave a short point (like a golf pencil). It is now very easy to put the line through the whole barrel and compensator from either direction, I did a test, and I was ten for ten, with no fumbling. YMMV.

Dwight

I have to support a collegiate team with about 25 shooters, many of them shooting air, standard/sport & free pistol. As a result, I will need about 50 strings, and many more over time as they get lost or damaged/dirty. Many of the students are "mechanically declined", and I don't want them fighting with curly strings too much.

I bought a bunch of the orange line from Home Depot, and have successfully used a heat gun to straighten a piece, but it's pretty tedious. It's fine for an individual, but it will take days to straighten 50 strings. I've built a vertical "oven" I can suspend pieces in over the heat gun, and I'm hoping suspending a weight on the strings & cooking them for a while will allow me to process several at once without too much fuss. Nylon anneals at about 350F. If you want to be fancy about it, you are supposed to ramp up to that over a long period of time (4 hours), and then hold it for ~ 15 minutes for a thin piece, then ramp down at 50F an hour. I'm not going to be nearly that fancy. I'll report back, with pictures if this works.

Gwhite wrote:I have to support a collegiate team with about 25 shooters, many of them shooting air, standard/sport & free pistol. As a result, I will need about 50 strings.....

Remember that it's only for Air that you need to go all the way through the barrel.

David Levene wrote:Remember that it's only for Air that you need to go all the way through the barrel.

True, but basically everyone shoots air pistol. That's still a LOT of strings.

I fired up my "oven" briefly, and it will need some tuning. 15 minutes definitely softened up the string, but it certainly isn't straight. I think I need to restrict the air flow from the heat gun so more of the hot air stays in the oven, and less escapes out the top.

Gwhite wrote:I have to support a collegiate team with about 25 shooters, many of them shooting air, standard/sport & free pistol. As a result, I will need about 50 strings, and many more over time as they get lost or damaged/dirty. Many of the students are "mechanically declined", and I don't want them fighting with curly strings too much.

I bought a bunch of the orange line from Home Depot, and have successfully used a heat gun to straighten a piece, but it's pretty tedious. It's fine for an individual, but it will take days to straighten 50 strings. I've built a vertical "oven" I can suspend pieces in over the heat gun, and I'm hoping suspending a weight on the strings & cooking them for a while will allow me to process several at once without too much fuss. Nylon anneals at about 350F. If you want to be fancy about it, you are supposed to ramp up to that over a long period of time (4 hours), and then hold it for ~ 15 minutes for a thin piece, then ramp down at 50F an hour. I'm not going to be nearly that fancy. I'll report back, with pictures if this works.

Whipper-snipper cord is 'tensilised' and wants to shrink back to a blob of plastic if heated. You can use this property to straighten it.
I have used a paint stripper heat gun, and find that a judicious application of heat to the outside (convex side) of the curve straightens it out
- cut line to about 100-150mm/4-6" more than barrel length
- dangle line vertically
- starting from the bottom, apply heat. With gun about 100mm from the cord, a second (or less) of heat to the outside of the curve will start to straighten it. If you over-do the heat, a quick bit of heat to the new 'outside' of the curve will bring it back
- work your way up the cord - when you get half way, start from the other end (or burn fingers)

My safety flag oven still needs some fine tuning, but it looks like it will work OK. I'll try to take some pictures this week.

It's basically a piece of 4" diameter metal stove pipe with a fiberglass insulation jacket, suspended vertically over a heat gun using some chemistry ring stand hardware. Putting baffles over the top to restrict the air flow definitely boosts the interior temperature. I have a thermocouple thermometer, and I should be able to play with the top baffle and the heat gun settings to get the right temperature range. The tricky part will be getting the interior temperature uniform enough to properly anneal the string at the top end without it melting at the bottom where it's closest to the heat gun.

I should be able to hang a few strings at a time, about 24" in length. The ISSF wants 15 to 20 cm long strings for .22's, so I can get three .22 flags per 24" string. Air pistols will need to have a long enough flag that I will only get one per string. The ISSF wants them to stick at least 10 cm out each end, so that's about 8" right there. I may be able to get one air pistol flag & one .22 flag per string.

Gwhite wrote:The ISSF wants 15 to 20 cm long strings for .22's, so I can get three .22 flags per 24" string.

I'm confused about why you would need to straighten the line to make .22 flags. It seems to me that the curve would be an advantage.

On Morini's or any other AP where its hard to get the garden trimmer line to come out of the muzzle, just use a kids drinking straw inserted at the muzzle end and it'll allow the flag line to pass through without issues :)

David Levene wrote:I'm confused about why you would need to straighten the line to make .22 flags. It seems to me that the curve would be an advantage.

It probably doesn't need much, but the line I have is REALLY curly. It wants to coil up in a 3" diameter circle. I may experiment with not cooking it so long, or using the curly end of a 24" piece for the .22's.

Spencer wrote: <snip>- cut line to about 100-150mm/4-6" more than barrel length

You're going to need longer than that, as the ISSF are asking for 10-15cm showing at each end so you'll need it 20-30cm longer than the barrel.

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote:

Spencer wrote: <snip>- cut line to about 100-150mm/4-6" more than barrel length

You're going to need longer than that, as the ISSF are asking for 10-15cm showing at each end so you'll need it 20-30cm longer than the barrel.

Rob.

Yep

Good grief.

I am looking forward to seeing this rule applied on the shotgun line.

JamesH wrote:Good grief.

I am looking forward to seeing this rule applied on the shotgun line.

Don't hold your breath, shotgun has different rules.

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote:

JamesH wrote:Good grief.

I am looking forward to seeing this rule applied on the shotgun line.

Don't hold your breath, shotgun has different rules.

Rob.

Yeah,
Shotgun rules are not such a pain in the butt like the new safety flag for rifle and pistol... I am only complying with the rules because i enjoy my sport, otherwise I would tell the ISSF where to shove the rule!!!

Cheers
Brad

Gwhite wrote:I have to support a collegiate team with about 25 shooters, many of them shooting air, standard/sport & free pistol. As a result, I will need about 50 strings, and many more over time as they get lost or damaged/dirty. Many of the students are "mechanically declined", and I don't want them fighting with curly strings too much.

I bought a bunch of the orange line from Home Depot, and have successfully used a heat gun to straighten a piece, but it's pretty tedious. It's fine for an individual, but it will take days to straighten 50 strings. I've built a vertical "oven" I can suspend pieces in over the heat gun, and I'm hoping suspending a weight on the strings & cooking them for a while will allow me to process several at once without too much fuss. Nylon anneals at about 350F. If you want to be fancy about it, you are supposed to ramp up to that over a long period of time (4 hours), and then hold it for ~ 15 minutes for a thin piece, then ramp down at 50F an hour. I'm not going to be nearly that fancy. I'll report back, with pictures if this works.

You have a menial job to do and access to 25 college students. The solution suggests itself.

You have a menial job to do and access to 25 college students. The solution suggests itself.[/quote]

+1.
I'm the college's archery team advisor as well as one of the coaches. Getting set up in archery has lots of similar menial tasks, none of which I do ("instruct and inspect", yes; "do", no).

Houngan wrote:You have a menial job to do and access to 25 college students. The solution suggests itself.

Yes, but I have one heat gun & very little time for the students to practice before the National Championships. I can set up my oven in a matter of seconds, and cook several strings while I do other stuff in my shop at home.

I can also almost guarantee somebody would burn themselves doing it manually. Most of the students are amazingly mechanically "declined".