TargetTalk

Having settled into a new grip, added a better trigger, and built a new trap, I'm back to shooting AP again. After a week of effort I'm able to hold the 9 ring when fresh, but even after a few shots I'm becoming fatigued and seeing the sights shake horizontally as well as my hold in general start dipping around.

I'm sure some of this will go away as I continue to practice, but are there any resources or advice you can give me regarding exercises to specifically strengthen and solidify my hold? Also, are there any recommendations as far as pacing yourself during a match? I might be shooting too quickly.

OP: I kinda classify stamina in three portions. Physical, Mental and Respiratory.
My view is that all three are tied together in a match.

The length of a match, depending on course can run three hours( set up, sighters and target changes, plus finals in some cases) This makes for a long match. I try to think of them as marathons not sprints.

To condition the “physical” I start the year out with exercise, this includes lifting lights weights in the gyms( nothing over 50 pounds) but lots of reps. This builds endurance not bulk. I also run on the treadmill or jog/walk for about a mile. This helps the respiration.
For sport specific training I try to hold a gallon jug 1/2 full of water for 30 seconds in the shooting position( about four pounds). Then rest for 30 seconds( jug down) repeat this for about 20 times or until your arm is pained.

I only work out three days a week, Monday, Wed. Friday- this gives my body time to rest and heal from muscle workouts, and fits with my shooting match schedule. I never work out the day of a match or less than 18 hours before a match. Muscles can still be twitchy long after exercise.

Now for mental marathons- I think that most folks can only concentrate intensely for about 20 seconds at a stretch, so I only do that. I trigger my match concentration by lifting the pistol off the bench. Like a light switch, power on, power off. In between shots I think of almost anything( but the shot) I might watch the grasses blow, the clouds, sing a song in my head. I once had a great shooter tell me he looked at the ammo box and started finding all the “A”’s on the box, then the “B”s and so on, just to calm his mind between shots. Must work he won silver in ’88. Sports psychology also come in here with the calming visualization stuff too.

Respiration- probably the most overlooked. Breathing regulates the heart rate, heart rate regulates the ability to hold steady, an un steady hold builds anxiety or mental anguish.
I work hard at breathing, like a marathon runner. If you run short of air it will affect performance. So I breath through my mouth to maximize my airflow with minimum effort, I breath while on point as my hold settles into it’s minimum arch of movement, as this happens my concentration is narrowing( visualize a funnel starting big, then getting smaller or finer). If the process works the shot will break via subconscious thought and result in good placement.

Now I relax and breath, start up the song in my head or look at the clouds. If I aborted the shot, I affirm in my mind I “did the right thing” and start the process over again.

A few tips on keeping calm. Forget the last shot! It’s over. Done. Put your energy on the next shot. Mistakes will happen, they happen to everyone. Match winners tend to minimize mistakes by not dwelling on them, the same with successes. Shooting a lot of center shots is what we are after right, It should not come to you as a surprise when it happens. Start to expect it.

Now as I get older things do change. Hold is not as long and eyesight is not as sharp. So adapt to those condition is what I think. Like shooting in the wind at Camp Perry hold shorter and quicken the pace. The mental focus is still the same, but the process has changed.(Note here that the conditions are the same for everyone) So don’t dwell on the conditions. Sorry I’m a little long winded today. Hope this helps your shooting.

I too am having trouble with the stamina. I read on this forum some months ago a suggestion that helped me some. It suggested standing with both arms out to the sides, and then making little circles for a count of 25 in the clockwise direction, and then doing 25 in the counterclockwise direction. After a few weeks of that, the suggestion was to raise to a count of 50, then a few weeks later hold a few pounds of weight in each hand and doing the 25, then 50 reps thing.

It was working for me for a while, then I got busy and didn't seem to be able to make the time to do it for a few months. Now I am shaky again and starting over at 25.

Hope this helps.

I would recommend holding exercises; against the wall with your pistol. Do a set of 1-minute hold followed by a 2 minute break. Do 10 sets of these every day (not before shooting....I usually do these at night). The hold will get pretty shaky at the end, which is ok. It will get better with time.

If 1-min. hold is a challenge, start with 30sec or 45sec. and build up to 1-min.

Alex.

If you have some surgical tubing or a Theraband you can put one end under your front foot, the other end under the heel of your hand on the grip of the pistol, and practice holding and dry firing with this downward tension on your arm. Adjusting the tension to add just a pound or two to the apparent weight of the pistol is probably enough, and the progressive strain of the elastic is good, safe exercise for the delicate muscles of the rotator cuff.

In general it is a good idea to strengthen the shoulder in all directions. A couple of the most commonly recommended exercises involve horizontal movement of the forearm with the elbow tucked into the ribs or against a foam block on the ribs, using a Theraband around a doorknob or other static element to provide resistance. Again not much pull strength should be needed, more the repetitions and focus on correct alignment. It is very easy to injure the shoulder with repetitive use, such as pistol shooting. Have a look at these animated demonstrations of correct exercises:
http://familydoctor.org/familydoctor/en ... -pain.html

OK?

Thanks for the expanded post Greg. I think I'm struggling between stamina and hold steadying, I can't hold long enough for things to settle. I'll start the strength exercises and see how that affects it.

Houngan wrote:Thanks for the expanded post Greg. I think I'm struggling between stamina and hold steadying, I can't hold long enough for things to settle. I'll start the strength exercises and see how that affects it.

I have found that if I wait to see the sights settle, to start my trigger pull, I am behind the shot. Remember what your eye sees is past history.
I do best when I trust my hold, and pull the trigger quickly and smoothly. For me the key to good shooting is independent operation of the trigger finger, not learning to hold the gun up past my window of stability.
Stength exercises are a good thing, beause you will tire less in a match, but I think holding drills are a mixed blessing. Some people swear by them. Others seem to gain nothing because it teaches them to delay their trigger pull, or causes other errors to creep into your shot process, such as changing your grip or letting your wrist relax.

Isabel1130 wrote:

Houngan wrote:Thanks for the expanded post Greg. I think I'm struggling between stamina and hold steadying, I can't hold long enough for things to settle. I'll start the strength exercises and see how that affects it.

I have found that if I wait to see the sights settle, to start my trigger pull, I am behind the shot. Remember what your eye sees is past history.
I do best when I trust my hold, and pull the trigger quickly and smoothly. For me the key to good shooting is independent operation of the trigger finger, not learning to hold the gun up past my window of stability.
Stength exercises are a good thing, beause you will tire less in a match, but I think holding drills are a mixed blessing. Some people swear by them. Others seem to gain nothing because it teaches them to delay their trigger pull, or causes other errors to creep into your shot process, such as changing your grip or letting your wrist relax.

Excellent advise.

You can also try to rest between groups of 10, 15 or 20 shoots. Have a chair close to your firing position and just sit down for a minute or two. This helps me a lot during training and in competition.
It´s one of the advantages of not shooting rifle :) so take advantage of it. You don´t have to stand for the entire match.

I agree with rmca, but I would like to suggest to make the resting periods more random. about quarter through, half through, three quarters through, etc. If you try to rest exactly after 10 shots - you will have problems not to try and score the first string while resting...

I agree, rest when tired, unless prompted by the match schedule I.e. target change or finals.

kaban56 wrote:I agree with rmca, but I would like to suggest to make the resting periods more random. about quarter through, half through, three quarters through, etc. If you try to rest exactly after 10 shots - you will have problems not to try and score the first string while resting...

Good point...
Those intervals don't have to be set in stone, if you're on the 14th shot of that series and feel good, keep shooting. If you feel tired after the 8th shot, take a small break.

I tend to do it in 10 shots intervals because it makes managing time more easy in a match, 15 minutes for sighters and 15 per ten shots including one minute to rest. But if I feel good I keep shooting, and it saves some time.

I guess i'll have to adjust those 15 minutes to about 12 next year

I shot a full 60 shots tonight inside of match time, final score 529. A few things I noticed:

1. It takes about ten shots for my arm to calm down.

2. I shoot much better at full hyperextension, which isn't easy with my reconstructed elbow.

3. My best trigger pull takes 2-4 seconds to break the trigger. Any faster and it produces fat 8s, any slower and I lose my hold.

4. My hold takes about 6 seconds to calm down.

5. I can't let my mind wander from keeping the front/rear sights aligned for a second.

Was this a match or training?

Greg Derr wrote:Was this a match or training?

Just training, but with no "I won't count that one" shots and within match timeframe. I tried to shoot 15 shots, then rest 10-15 minutes, then shoot another 15.

Houngan wrote: I tried to shoot 15 shots, then rest 10-15 minutes, then shoot another 15.

That's too long... 10-15 minutes times 3 equals 30-45 minutes in a 1h45m match. Next year you will have 15 minutes for preparation and sighters and an 1h30m for the 60 competition shots (paper tagets) or 15m + 1h15m if electronic targets. That means you will be resting half the time!

Try to take more breaks, but shorter ones. Say 2-3 minutes.

One other thing that may help. When you finish a shot and put the gun down to reload, try to do that with the pistol resting on the bench. Don't let go of the grip, but let the weight of the pistol rest on the bench wile you reload. This lets your arm rest between shots. Use your pistol case if you need some extra height.

Hope this helps
Cheers

Just me maybe, but keeping score during training I believe is counter productive. I think training should focus on the shot process and shot placement. Also I would never shoot a specific number of shots on a target in order to avoid " scoring" So on an AP target try shooting shots until you can no longer see individual shots and on FP same thing. I also black out the scorung rings on training targets if I shoot on a black bull at all. At your level, performance is more inportant than score. Training scores only put unrealistic expectations on you in a match.

rmca wrote:

Houngan wrote: I tried to shoot 15 shots, then rest 10-15 minutes, then shoot another 15.

That's too long... 10-15 minutes times 3 equals 30-45 minutes in a 1h45m match. Next year you will have 15 minutes for preparation and sighters and an 1h15m for the 60 competition shots (paper tagets). One hour if electronic targets. That means you will be resting half the time!

You're slightly wrong on next years timings, for paper targets its 1hr 30 mins for 60 shots and if electronic targets its 1hr 15 mins for 60 shots, both of these are plus the 15 mins preparation and sighting times

shooter560 wrote:

rmca wrote:

Houngan wrote: I tried to shoot 15 shots, then rest 10-15 minutes, then shoot another 15.

That's too long... 10-15 minutes times 3 equals 30-45 minutes in a 1h45m match. Next year you will have 15 minutes for preparation and sighters and an 1h15m for the 60 competition shots (paper tagets). One hour if electronic targets. That means you will be resting half the time!

You're slightly wrong on next years timings, for paper targets its 1hr 30 mins for 60 shots and if electronic targets its 1hr 15 mins for 60 shots, both of these are plus the 15 mins preparation and sighting times

You're right...
My mistake. 15m + 1h30m for paper targets, and 15m+1h15m for eletronic.
I will edit the previous post.

Thanks

After shooting way too much (the joy of starting again after building a new trap and grips) I laid of for three days. When I picked it back up yesterday everything was 50% better, so yay me! I have some proper Rink grips on the way, and I'm starting to work on strict jock workouts (holding until failure rather than just shooting.) We'll see what the winter brings.