Comercial / Industrial Cyllinders

jcar · Post by **jcar** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:58 am

Does anyone know if there are other options (ie...industrial compressed air cylinders), aside from scuba tanks, for filling pistol and rifle cylinders? The closest dive shop is 60 miles away and we have 3 industrial gas / welding supply places locally. I noticed that Champions has a 200 DIN valve for a commercial tank. Does anyone know if this valve is a replacement for the original cylinder valve or if it's used in conjunction with the original cylinder valve?

Thanks,

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:17 pm

Do a search (see top of page) and you'll see there is a fair amount of info on filling from nitrogen tanks. You would need proper fittings and a gauge; probably available at the air dealer.

BTW If you don't already have the guns, you might want to consider C02 or SSPs instead of PCP. Probably lots cheaper.

visitor · Post by **visitor** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:21 pm

Take this from one who has to drive 60+ miles to the nearest AP competition. Unless you're shooting tens of thousands of pellets annually, you'll only have to take the trip once or at most twice a year. The dive shop will fill your tank to the proper pressure, and if you develop any kind of relationship with them they'll top up your cylinders before you leave.

Drive the 60 miles. Make it an occasion - treat yourself to a lunch and/or a beer that you don't usually get to enjoy.

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:36 pm

If I were you, I would go ahead and buy a manual pump like the Hill or the Gehmann. Even a large scuba tank will only fill your cylinder up to the top of the green line for about the first 20 or so fills. After that it drops off fairly quickly and if you take your cylinders anywhere in a cold car, it will be barely into the green when you pull your AP out. I have gone the scuba tank route for the last three years, driving 60 miles one way to fill it, lugging it into and out of the car and truck. It is a PITA. I finally gave up after searching for a counter person for 20 minutes at the local air gas dealership (where I had called ahead and they said they might be able to save me the 120 miles round trip) I think at the scuba shop it was 15 bucks to fill the tank, gas round trip at 3.50 a gallon cost me 18 dollars. You do the math at how quickly you can justify the cost of a high pressure manual pump.

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:04 pm

Isabel1130 wrote: I think at the scuba shop it was 15 bucks to fill the tank

WOW!!!! ... here in the (non)diving capitol of New Mexico, it's only $4 to fill the tank! It's cheaper when I get a 10X fill card ... only $35 for that.

The largest cost of the tank is the yearly VIP ($17) and then the 5 year hydro ($80 .... my tanks are old enough to need an eddy current test too).

I've got CO2 tanks too and they cost $17 to fill and a 5 year ($45) hydro --- no yearly test required.

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:28 pm

so basically if you prorate the cost of the hydro, and the yearly VIP and you fill the tank once a year, it costs you 16 bucks for the hydro, 17 bucks for the VIP and 4 bucks to fill the tank for a grand total of 38 dollars to fill the tank on a yearly basis. If you fill it twice a year, it is 8 bucks for the hydro, 8.50 for the VIP and 4 bucks to fill the tank, for a grand total of 20 bucks per fill at twice a year, plus gas of course. I rest my case. :-)

taz · Post by **taz** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:32 pm

Isabel1130 wrote:If I were you, I would go ahead and buy a manual pump like the Hill or the Gehmann. Even a large scuba tank will only fill your cylinder up to the top of the green line for about the first 20 or so fills.

Although I agree on the pump (get a 4 stage Gehmann if you can) for match pistols and rifles, the second sentence is only true in the case of a 200bar tank.

I have a 7lt 300bar tank and it can fill my LG110 rifle more than 30 times or my LP10E pistol more than 60 times at the maximum 200bar limit and I still get a few fills after that.

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 pm

taz wrote:
Isabel1130 wrote:If I were you, I would go ahead and buy a manual pump like the Hill or the Gehmann. Even a large scuba tank will only fill your cylinder up to the top of the green line for about the first 20 or so fills.
Although I agree on the pump (get a 4 stage Gehmann if you can) for match pistols and rifles, the second sentence is only true in the case of a 200bar tank.

I have a 7lt 300bar tank and it can fill my LG110 rifle more than 30 times or my LP10E pistol more than 60 times at the maximum 200bar limit and I still get a few fills after that.

I live at an extremely high altitude. I dont know if that affects my fills or not, but my tank weighs about 30 pounds, and is an awkward shape to get a grip on. It is heavy enough that I get my husband to move it for me when I can. Anything bigger would require a crew.

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:59 pm

Isabel1130 wrote:so basically if you prorate the cost of the hydro, and the yearly VIP and you fill the tank once a year, it costs you 16 bucks for the hydro, 17 bucks for the VIP and 4 bucks to fill the tank for a grand total of 38 dollars to fill the tank on a yearly basis. If you fill it twice a year, it is 8 bucks for the hydro, 8.50 for the VIP and 4 bucks to fill the tank, for a grand total of 20 bucks per fill at twice a year, plus gas of course. I rest my case. :-)

Nah .... we're a club, so we're refilling 2-3 tanks 12-14 times per year, each.
We're also refilling rifle cylinders so they may hake a bit more per fill.

That does not include the fills we have to do for matches if you host them.
Our tanks are at 3-4 major matches per year (200+ shooters). Usually filling a tank 2-3 times per match if we don't have other clubs bring theirs.
With all the sporter guns using air now our air use has gone up at matches ... CO2 probably down a bit.

taz · Post by **taz** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:08 pm

Isabel1130 wrote:
taz wrote:
Isabel1130 wrote:If I were you, I would go ahead and buy a manual pump like the Hill or the Gehmann. Even a large scuba tank will only fill your cylinder up to the top of the green line for about the first 20 or so fills.
Although I agree on the pump (get a 4 stage Gehmann if you can) for match pistols and rifles, the second sentence is only true in the case of a 200bar tank.

I have a 7lt 300bar tank and it can fill my LG110 rifle more than 30 times or my LP10E pistol more than 60 times at the maximum 200bar limit and I still get a few fills after that.
I live at an extremely high altitude. I dont know if that affects my fills or not, but my tank weighs about 40-50 pounds. It is heavy enough that I get my husband to move it for me when I can. Anything bigger would require a crew.

Pressure difference due to altitude is insignificant.
Your "problem" is that you own a 3000psi or a 232bar tank (I suppose in the US you use the former) which compared to a 300bar tank gives you 1/3 of the fills.
On the other hand it can be a problem finding a scuba shop that can fill the 300bar tank since these are not so popular compared to the 232bar tanks.

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:09 pm

jhmartin wrote: Nah .... we're a club, so we're refilling 2-3 tanks 12-14 times per year, each.
We're also refilling rifle cylinders so they may hake a bit more per fill.

That does not include the fills we have to do for matches. Usually filling a tank 2-3 times per match if we don't have other clubs bring theirs.
With all the sporter guns using air now our air use has gone up at matches ... CO2 probably down a bit.

For a club, pumps are a non-starter. Even for regular home use they are less than ideal as they generate moist air, as opposed to dive air which is dry. I'd suggest considering a compressor, perhaps second hand, but they all still need looking after. But it would allow you to keep a couple of dive cylinders filled up all the time.

Rob.

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:16 pm

RobStubbs wrote:
jhmartin wrote: Nah .... we're a club, so we're refilling 2-3 tanks 12-14 times per year, each.
We're also refilling rifle cylinders so they may hake a bit more per fill.

That does not include the fills we have to do for matches. Usually filling a tank 2-3 times per match if we don't have other clubs bring theirs.
With all the sporter guns using air now our air use has gone up at matches ... CO2 probably down a bit.
For a club, pumps are a non-starter. Even for regular home use they are less than ideal as they generate moist air, as opposed to dive air which is dry. I'd suggest considering a compressor, perhaps second hand, but they all still need looking after. But it would allow you to keep a couple of dive cylinders filled up all the time.

Rob.

If I lived in England, I would agree. However, I live in a high altitude, almost desert climate and humidity is not a problem. If it was, then I probably would get one of the dry paks that Pilkington sells. For most individuals who do not live close to a dive shop, the manual pump is the way to go. A compressor that will compress to 200 bar is extremely expensive. I looked into it.

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:31 pm

RobStubbs wrote: I'd suggest considering a compressor, perhaps second hand, but they all still need looking after. But it would allow you to keep a couple of dive cylinders filled up all the time.

The best purchase the OTC made was their compressor. Prior to that, at major matches (3xAir, Spring Air, Rocky and JOs) we were running multiple tanks per day up to the fill shop.
Now, after Scott set them up with a 3 tank manifold system and the compressor, when the low tank gets too low you just take it back to the compressor it "pump it up".

I used to take our own tanks up so our shooters could take the cylinders out to the car to fill them & not stand in a 15-20 person line.

THANKS SCOTT!

kingsolo · Post by **kingsolo** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:04 am

Just a thought, have you checked your local Fire Department? Firefighters use the same air that SCUBA does (In fact at a military base iin Korea I was stationed at, the Fire Department filled the tanks for the SCUBA instructor), and they 99% of the time, even most Voulenteer Fire Deprtments, have a compressor for filling their air tanks. They may fill the tanks for you for free. Plus, it looks really good on them for supporting the community on match days, so they may hook you up.

jcar · Post by **jcar** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:56 pm

I'd like to thank everyone for thier replies. I've decided to go the scuba tank route. The local industrial gas supplier informed me that thier standard nitrogen and compressed air tanks are only filled to 2000 psi. They had 4500 and 6000 psi tanks that would have required 2 people and a pickup to move. The price to fill the higher pressure tanks was $65, which I didn't think was too bad considering thier size. Unfortunately, they wanted $395 for for the annual tank lease. No thank you. I called the dive shop, expecting them to say they wouldn't fill a tank without a dive card, and was surprised to have them tell me they fill for compressed air gun owners often. He does want a signed letter stating that I'll only use it for air guns.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:43 pm

Stop whining and shoot more matches at Phoenix Rod & Gun Club. We'll fill your SCUBA tank for free, and what's more we'll make John Zurek do it. (Tips optional.)

visitor · Post by **visitor** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:59 pm

Smart decision! You'll not regret it.

jcar · Post by **jcar** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:24 pm

My scuba tank was delivered Thursday. Stopped by the dive shop and had it filled for $5. I've already filled the LP400 twice. Scuba's the way to go if you have a shop that'll fill for you.

dmalstrom · Post by **dmalstrom** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:23 am

The main scuba shops in LA would not fill my air rifle cylinder because it does not have a DOT # stamped on it. Luckily I do have a diving certification so I rented a tank for $10 and filled my cylinder myself after buying an adapter for it. I already had a scuba tank but it was made in 1975 and no one would do a hydro on it because of its age due to the supposed increased chance of the tank rupturing.

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:15 am

dmalstrom wrote:The main scuba shops in LA would not fill my air rifle cylinder because it does not have a DOT # stamped on it. Luckily I do have a diving certification so I rented a tank for $10 and filled my cylinder myself after buying an adapter for it. I already had a scuba tank but it was made in 1975 and no one would do a hydro on it because of its age due to the supposed increased chance of the tank rupturing.

I have an older tank as well. Getting it hydro'd should not be an issue. My dive shop always explains to me that the neck of this tank has been known to fail hydros and do I want to risk it. Always YES ... if it fails it fails ... there is no risk to them either, they way they hydro a tank is perfectly safe if a tank fails. Look around ... especially on the West coast you should be able to find a place to hydro it. Places that do tank inspections for the fire departments & fire extinguisher shops are good. Why have an empty tank sitting around?