TargetTalk

I wonder if people still use these free pistols nowadays, or are they considered as collector's items, and not shoot them or just shoot them occasionally for fun? Do people still use them for competitive matches? Do people use them for matches against someone else who also own these guns, sort of like a vintage gun match?
Can they be considered as beginners Free Pistol? There are quite a few of these guns floating around and I don't know what to make of them....they were top of the line back in the 50s but I wonder how relevant they are nowadays even at the club level.

The MIT collegiate team has several PGP's that the students still shoot, some with considerable success. We have a bizarre mix of free pistols, and the students shoot the one that fits them best. We have at least one Hammerli 105(?), at least one Toz, several PGPs, ~ 5 Hammerli 160's, and one Walther electric. Nothing is any newer than the 160's.

I'd love to replace all the older pistols with Morini's, but we'll have to hit the lottery first, or find a generous Alum to foot the bill. I can keep the 160's & PGP's up & running, but gunsmithing the others is terra incognita. One of our Toz's is kept operational with a Q-tip stuffed in a hole in the grip so the falling block pin won't fall out. One of my summer projects is to find out what's up with that...

I shoot my Hammerli 120 at least once a month. I have an even older Tompkins free pistol that I don't hesitate to shoot occasionally (certainly within the last three months, iirc).

Old guns are fun to shoot. That's enough reason to enjoy owning them. I'm not a serious competitive shooter, though. If I were, I'd permanently put them away since I believe they'd be a distraction from and disruption to my training.

Gwhite wrote:One of our Toz's is kept operational with a Q-tip stuffed in a hole in the grip so the falling block pin won't fall out. One of my summer projects is to find out what's up with that...

TOZs were made that way, although yours does sound a little loose, probably from the wear of 1000s of cycles. That pin access through the grip is a feature to allow removal of the block for cleaning, without having to dismount the grip. If your grip, like many, did not have the hole, you probably wouldn't even notice the pin looseness.

Just use something to block the hole that's a bit more solid than a Q-tip - say a rubber plug or a screw - and use the gun for more 1000s of rounds. If you still want to worry about something, I suppose at some point the loose play of the block on the pin might affect headspace, but you should be able to determine that by examining a fired empty for bulging at the base.

HTH, FredB

FredB wrote:

Gwhite wrote:One of our Toz's is kept operational with a Q-tip stuffed in a hole in the grip so the falling block pin won't fall out. One of my summer projects is to find out what's up with that...

TOZs were made that way, although yours does sound a little loose, probably from the wear of 1000s of cycles. That pin access through the grip is a feature to allow removal of the block for cleaning, without having to dismount the grip. If your grip, like many, did not have the hole, you probably wouldn't even notice the pin looseness..

HTH, FredB

They are made with a clever little spring retention that clicks into the groove near the end of the pivot pin. The pin should have a groove at both ends so it doesn't matter which way you put it in. If your pin has no grooves then it's not the original pin. If it has grooves and still falls out during normal use, then the spring retainer has either failed or is jammed.

As for the three pistols listed in the topic, I would consider the 10X series and 120 Hammerlis to be a bit dated but OK for beginners. The Pardini PGP to be OK for anyone right up to top level. The only thing possibly "wrong" with them is the bolt action is a bit crude and they extractors don't work that well (I used to dig out 90% of my fired cases with a screwdriver!). As far as "shootability" they are great to shoot, well I liked the one I had anyway.

Still use my PGP75.

I still use my Pardini PGP75 to compete in matches.

University of Virginia still uses 8 PGP-75. Pretty easy to adjust trigger. Grips are impossible to find (like if you need a real big one, or a left hand one). Students like the PGP's better than several Hammerli's we have (150 and 10--) that mostly just sit in the safe.