TargetTalk

I am an instructor for a group of kids, rifle shooters. I need to upgrade my ear protection from the basic stuff to a set where I can hear the questions of the kids on the line, hear myself talk; but not hear the shots.

First: Recommendations? Specific models, please.

Second: Should I hear the shots? That might sound like a strange question, but if cease fire is called maybe I should hear any shots of errant shooters.

Some comments...

adjust the volume so that face-to-face conversation sounds 'norma;' and you should hear any shots (including 10m Air) on the range section.

the dirt cheap Ozito brand electronics look and are bulky and garish (orange) but work great for instructors.

my Dillon electronics (much more dollars) are used for my normal on-range sessions and though much more expensive are just as good for shooting, officiating and coaching. They will readily pick up somebody closing an action (something to do with the sound spectrum?) and fold back on themselves which takes up less space in the range case.

whatever you get:
- double check you have turned them off at the end of the session
- carry some spare batteries

Accushot - even the electronic ear protection priced in the mid price range come with an auto shut off feature which saves your batteries if you fail to turn them off after your shooting session.

I would bet all my Hammerli pistols that there isnt a single device out there that prevents the wearer from hearing a shot. No matter which ones you buy, you'll hear a shot go off.

This is more than you probably want to know but the device is designed to eletronically "clip" any sound in excess of a predetermined db level. That means the device will allow the sound of gunshot to pass through the electronics but once the db threshold is met, the electronics shut down. So you will hear a safe portion of the gunshot through the electronics in addition to any portion of the sound which percolates through the muffs independent of the electronics. THe sum total of what you will hear should be be acceptable for hearing safety purposes.

Conversation will not be clipped since it does not exceed the electornic threshold.


I own a pair made by Caldwell ($35) and a unit made by Peltor (Tactical Sport @ $125).

The Peltor is more comfortable, less bulky and cooler looking. Both do a great job. The Caldwell I have does not have the auto shut off feature.

accushot wrote:First: Recommendations? Specific models, please.

Second: Should I hear the shots?

Over the last 35 years I've been through lots of hearing protectors. As a former pistol silhouette shooter (a game where the guns are LOUD in a way most people can't appreciate until they experience it) I really appreciate good protection and I'm willing to pay for it. Cheap sets work fine until they stop working, at which time they become bulky and inconvenient paperweights.

My response to your first question is that I bought both the MSA Sordin Supreme Pro-X and the Supreme Pro-X Neckband models. Link to the place from which I purchased is here: http://www.srstactical.com/communicatio ... dsets.html

I wear the neck band version because it's marginally larger than the standard over-the-top-of-the-head configuration. I bought a set of the standard ones and they didn't fit. They were obviously a great product but at maximum extension, they were just a quarter inch too short. The neck-band version is just that much larger and barely fits.

Apparently I have a very fat head. I shouldn't be surprised. A dozen ex-girlfriends can't be wrong.

I was going to have to buy a second set, anyway. When my sister tried on the first set I bought, she instantly told me I wasn't going to get them back.

One caveat - The gel earpad option is a must. They change the whole character of the device by providing excellent comfort and sealing. The standard earpads are barely OK, which means "not nearly good enough".

My response to your second question is that I don't think it's an issue. The mic on the MSAs cuts off and on so quickly that I don't hear the report of the shooters near me but I do hear the echo of their shots off the side walls. I fully expect that if I were in your situation, I'd hear some sound associated with the shot (pellets striking traps, .22s hitting traps or target backers downrange, autoloader actions cycling, whatever) and have a good idea if the shot occurred before or after the command to cease fire. In fact, when I've used these protectors outdoors I've found that the momentary absence of ambient noise is sufficient confirmation that a shot was fired. As I said, I doubt it will be an issue.

Sorry to recommend such an expensive option but I really think they're worth the money.

One final note and it's just my opinion but no matter how much I like the MSAs, no hearing protectors are good enough. When I'm shooting alone or otherwise have no need to communicate with anyone, I turn them off and put in plugs, too.

BenEnglishTX wrote:
One final note and it's just my opinion but no matter how much I like the MSAs, no hearing protectors are good enough. When I'm shooting alone or otherwise have no need to communicate with anyone, I turn them off and put in plugs, too.

Sound advice ;-)

A guy I know had a set of ear plugs made in a hearing aid shop moulded to fit his ears with a built in (for want of a better word) sensor which allows him to hear people speaking but cuts off the sound of the shot.

I personally dont know if they are any good but he loves them.

I am tempted to get a set for myself, but I am not a great lover of ear plugs and they were quite expensive.

What ear plugs do you guys use.

GaryD wrote:A guy I know had a set of ear plugs made in a hearing aid shop moulded to fit his ears...

At large gun shows in the U.S., there's always some vendor selling molded plugs without the electronics. They seem to do a good business since there's pretty much always some guy lying on his side on the vendor's table, waiting for the goo in his ear to set up. I've always considered them to be a gimmick, an expensive doo-dad that's too easy to lose and too hard to keep clean.

GaryD wrote:What ear plugs do you guys use.

There are just a few things to consider.

First, I hate the idea of keeping ear plugs clean, so with the exception of those specialized pressure-equalization plugs for use on airplanes, I favor disposables.

Second, if you look at the Noise Reduction Rating printed on the box (at least, in the U.S.) you'll find that cheap disposables actually provide more protection than most other methods. Lots of standard ear muffs for sound protection do a poorer job than a 50-cent pair of disposable plugs.

So I buy the softest, smoothest, cheapest bulk-pack plugs I can find and toss them away after each use. My local pharmacies invariably have a dozen choices that meet those criteria.

The only plugs I actively avoid are the ones that look like perfect cylinders and feel rough on the outside; I find them irritating for long wear.

Finally, plugs don't work unless you put them in right. Yes, I know that pretty much everyone on TargetTalk knows how to insert plugs. However, I see so many people do it wrong that I can't help but add this short addendum. It might help someone.

To insert the plug into the right ear, gently roll one between thumb and index finger of the right hand until it collapses into a tiny cylinder that looks like little more than a thick bit of cord. Reach over the top of your head with your left hand, grasp and pull up on the top of your right ear (this straightens out the ear canal), then insert the compressed plug as far as it will go into the right ear. Release with the left hand but keep a finger on the end of the plug until you feel it expand and seal inside the ear. Mirror-image repeat to insert the other plug.

You know you're doing it right when you must regularly resort to a small pair of long-nose pliers to extract them at the end of practice.

For old geezers like me, the plug removal process via pliers also provides an additional benefit; it invariably extracts a quantity of excess ear hair. Now if I could only figure out how to grow as much hair on top of my head as I do in my ears... :-)

BenEnglishTX wrote:
For old geezers like me, the plug removal process via pliers also provides an additional benefit; it invariably extracts a quantity of excess ear hair. Now if I could only figure out how to grow as much hair on top of my head as I do in my ears... :-)

Thankfully I still have most of my hair, but I do have a small sun roof on top, and for some reason my hair has changed colour to grey.

On a more serious note I have seen people at the Bisley meeting selling the moulded while you wait ones.
They are also available on line as well as a do it yourself option

Ear plugs are fine but not ideal if you're an instructor and want to hear normally. As mentioned they are expensive and the sound reducing ones are very expensive. I use peltor electronics in those circumstances, but when I'm actually shooting I use moulded ear plugs. I've used them for many years - they are simple to clean, if you want to clean them. On the downside even those are expensive so shop around. I got my second set from Holland and they were half the price of a set made at Bisley.

Rob.

One of the motorcycle magazines did a test of various forms of hearing protection. Bottom line: cheap disposable foam plugs were most effective. You CAN hear shots with them. The muffs are much easier to remove and put on, though (and hairy ears are not a problem, except to bestowers of "Wet Willies").

I have used a bunch of different kinds of hearing protection. And some are good for some purposes and some not so good.

When I first started shooting I wore plugs and muffs. This resulted in me shouting "WHAT!!??" every two seconds. And the muffs I had were very bulky. When I started shooting HighPower, I used some caldwell electronic ones. I thought they were the greatest thing ever! But soon I tried on a pair of peltors and fell in love. But I changed over from the muffs to the disposable plugs (the muffs hit the stock). These work REALLY well to block out the sound. But I was loosing them every two seconds. So I got a pair of custom made plugs that I have been using since. I really like them for smallbore and air rifle. They are adequate at blocking the sound, and they are a snap to put in. Also if you want to have a quick talk to someone, you just "unscrew" the plug from your ear a bit and you can hear them.

Overall the best for coaching are Peltors. You can hear people talking and they shut off at the sound of the shot. For shooting I like plugs because they stay out of the way. If/when I start shooting 300 Meter, I will probably use Peltors with plugs under them.
Matt

For prolonged use I can highly recommend the MePaBlu M-0200 Black muffs.

The electronics are good but the biggest advantage is the silicon gel ear pads. They seal well and make the muffs comfortable enough to wear all day without a problem; much more comfortable than any other brands I have tried.

I use Peltors almost all the time while shooting, alone otherwise but with standard disposable plugs when shooting big rifles at ranges with walls near my shooting position. You can just turn up the volume and you still hear conversations, but the attenuation is great even for really loud shots.

Mika

I got the Walkers over the ear type, with electronic amplification and noise cut off, and they were very good at both of those tasks. My range allows muzzle loaders and shotgunners (slugs only) and pistol shooters to shoot on the 50yd Small Bore range along side the small bore shooters (lucky us, but major character builders, with the booming and hot casings being dumped on you), so major noise blocking required there. As an aside when the 12 gauge or .50 cal SW guys are next to you, foam plugs are needed under the electronics, but good luck with range commands after that. Unfortunately, they had a very short life span, maybe 3 months. Also, no auto shut off, so they eat expensive lithium batteries, so I would recommend a place with a good return policy, and a better product lifespan rep, and for sure an auto shut off.

If you are also shooting on the line alongside your kids, I personally have yet to find an over the ear protector that doesn't mess with my cheek weld, equilibrium or annoy the daylights out of me when doing 3P small bore. My in the ear hearing aids while not meant for this task, do have noise cancelling technology (but with a higher threshold) and do not interfere with shooting, so I'm guessing that a purpose built set would work better. However, the hidden difficulty with all in the ear electronic gear is they are really fragile (especially relative to over the ear gear), and they also eat expensive batteries. Most of my range officer friends use inexpensive Caldwell electronic over the ear types when working the line and swear by them, add in the ear foam plugs if really big calibers are near by, and change to slimmer tactical type over the ear types if they are rifle shooting themselves. I would start cheap and work my way up. I did the opposite way and it didn't work out too good.

The MSA Sordins with gel pads are excellent, not only do they attenuate sound well, but they are comfortable too.

If there's no need to hear, do turn them off and consider plugging too.