TargetTalk

Here it goes.

I am a 17 year old high schooler and I am looking to invest in my first air rifle. I was recently at my relatives home and I got to try 10 meter air rifle shooting. Once I tried it I knew I wanted to do this for a while. So I have been doing tons of research over the past few weeks.

However, I still don't know what to get. I know these rifles aren't cheap, and I am willing to pay, but I want to make sure I make the right decision.

I am looking for something that I am not going to outgrow( both physically and as a shooter) anytime soon. I don't want to spend serious money on something that may make keep me from my full potential a few years down the road.

I will probably end up buying a new one in 6-8 years, given that's when I willl hopefully be out of college and have a real job, but for now I want something that will last until then.

Any input is greatly appreciated,

Thanks,

Jon

Sorry I should have specified my budget too. I think max is about $1600 for the gun and sights. I will go a little higher if I have to.

Jon

Well if you are going this alone without club support, I would reccomend a nice used Anschutz 2001 or 2002 SuperAir SSP. heck I'd recommend them if you had club support. A compressed air model would be nice but you have to have a means to fill it.

sbrmike wrote:Well if you are going this alone without club support, I would reccomend a nice used Anschutz 2001 or 2002 SuperAir SSP. heck I'd recommend them if you had club support. A compressed air model would be nice but you have to have a means to fill it.

For all the same reasons Mike lays out above, I'd also recommend an SSP rifle, though I like the FWB 600 line (especially the 603). SSP allows you to not worry about air tanks and associated accessories. If you move much, as most college students do, having everything fit in one rifle case is a big plus.

FWB 603 and Anschutz 2002 rifles are every bit as accurate as the most modern PCP models. They do require you to pump the rifle for every shot, however. Personally, I find that a small price to pay for the freedom of no air tanks. If you find yourself shooting with the big boys (580+), you can always move to a PCP and get all your money back out of the SSP as long as you treat it right.

$1600 should buy you a fine, like new, example of any of these rifles, though you might have to look around a bit.

Check in the "Buy, Sell, Trade" area of this forum; I'm sure you can find something to fit your budget.

Thanks for the input. I wouldn't mind a pcp, That's why I said about 1600 for the gun, to leave room for the cost of the tanks, pumps, etc.

Also, I would prefer something new, I have had bad luck with used items in the past. Do you think this is possible?

Finally how can I find if their is a club nearby. I live in CT, so is anyone familiar

Thank you everyone very much, you've already been such a help!

Jon

Would anyone recommend any of these guns

Walther lg30
fwb 700 basic
fwb 700 junior( a strech on the price but maybe)
8001 junior
8001 club( can't tell the difference between the junior and the club)

Are their any others I have missed?

Thanks,
Jon

One thing to watch out for on the junior rifles is some of them are ambidextrous. I have a P70-jr (wood stock), and my description of ambidextrous is neither right NOR left handed. It is the part of the stock where I put my thumb that has a problem with the construction of an ambi stock. It is much more comfortable with a dedicated right hand stock.
Is this a deal breaker? No, but it is an irritation I would rather do without if I could.

Used rifles are generally in very good condition. Target shooters tend to take good care of their guns.
I bought two of my APs used, from the host of this forum Pilkington's. And I have no problem buying another used gun from them. They stand behind what they sell.

you don't want to buy any of the junior models. you are probably already too big for them.
You can't go wrong with any of the FWB 700's or the Ans 8001 or 8002.
If you can find a FWB 700 used in a wood stock they go for around $1200. You can buy a new FWB700 evolution aluminum stock from ISS for around $1700 which is also the approx price of a new 700 in wood stock.
I'm not real familiar with the Walther 30 but if its anything like all their other guns, they are equally as good as the Anschutz and FWB.
Buying a used scuba tank and a fill adaptor doesn't cost all that much and is easier to shoot. I haven't seen anyone shooting a SSP in competition since I got started a year ago. However, they are just as accurate and a good way to go if using a scuba tank is an issue or if you only have a few hundred to get started. Search the old posts for SSP rifles to get an idea of what they have sold for.

One more thing, you might want to call the major dealers and see what they have used. They don't always advertise the used ones and sometimes know when they will be getting a used one in. Pilkington usually has some good used stuff in stock for fair prices

About the junior fit, I concur.
If you are much taller than my 5'4" then the junior rifles will be small for you, and you will benefit more from the fit of the full size rifles.

Wow, you guys are so helpful!

Alright I am convinced not to get a junior model ( 5'8"), and to go with a right handed stock. So where does that leave me?

Also, would it be possible to get a link to that fwb 700 aluminum? I looked up iss but couldn't find anything. Thanks agian.

I also just spotted the fwb 500, would this be a bad pick if it turns out my budget gets lowered? Sorry for all the questions, I just don't want to spend so much money on the wrong gun.

Thanks again,

Jon

You really need to try out a few guns to see if you like the weight,fit and balance. Seriously between Anschutz, Feinwerkbau and Walther, they all shoot better than you. Next, the equipment you need to buy could be just as expensive. You should buy jackets, pants, sling, off-hand stand, scope, ect, in the used market. You also need a coach, maybe join a shooting club to get advice. You need to buy "Ways of the Rifle " or some other positional manual. Seriously, it is not just about buying a rifle. Hope this helps.
Chris

I completely understand that it's not just about the rifle, but if I am gonna need to start buying equiptment somewhere, I think it'd be a little bit more fun to get the rifle first than clothes. I am going to get what I can when I can. However I only make minimum wage so this may take a while. But I will take the advice on that book and a coach. Just a question of if I can find one.

Jon

'Dude,

First the easy part, for shooting in CT contact Deborah Lyman, dlyman(at)snet.net or 203 269 3280. She is in Wallingford CT. Not sure where you are but Deborah will be able to tell you if there is anything going on in your immediate area.

Next, for manufacturer of rifle, the FWB, Walther and Anschutz are all superbly accurate and especially since you are just getting started, will all shoot way better than you can. The next part of the equation is reliability, FWB is generally regarded as being the most reliable of the three. Walther is known for regulator failures and Anschutz while generally reliable can be expensive to repair if needed. I will also point out, should any of these rifles need parts FWB seems to be the best at supporting their equipment. While not much of an issue for a newer rifle I can get factory parts for a 40 year old FWB, Anschutz not so much and Walther I have never tried. I have been studying this problem for a while and expect I will purchase a new air rifle in the next year or so, for the reasons I have stated I expect I will purchase an FWB.

While it was suggested you go someplace and try all three since you are just getting started it would be difficult, perhaps impossible for you to even know what feels good or right. Within budget constraints, select one that you like and work with it. Assuming you stick with it, after about two years if you like you can be a little more discerning and trade up or over. However since you mention CT, Deborah Lyman would likely be a great resource in being able to see some of these different rifles first hand.

Where to get these things, you know about Pilkguns, (our host), ISS (Neal Stepp who is a great guy to work with but does maintain a pretty low key website), there is Gartland Precision (229 649 6973) Chuck Gartland is in the process of moving his shop right now so I am not sure if he is open for business and finally Champions Choice and Champion Shooters Supply. As has been mentioned, contact these folks and ask about used equipment you can find some surprisingly good deals on like new stuff if you are patient.

You wanted a link to the FWB 700 Alu?

http://www.feinwerkbau.de/ceasy/modules ... PageId=142

There it is, over on the left you can see all the other FWB models. Now, you have never done this before. Look at the ALU, check prices on the ALU, drool on the picture of teh ALU. DO NOT buy an ALU as your first rifle! It is WAY too adjustable. There is nothing funnier to watch than a new junior starting out with a brand new ultra adjustable aluminum stock, it is amazing the contortions they can come up with, there are few things more unfortunate than six months later the same junior gives up in frustration because they are so contorted and so confused they can't make progress and are even going backwards. If you decide you have to have an aluminum stock check out the FWB 700 EVO, aluminum with enough adjusments to be interesting but no so many that a new shooter is going to get into trouble.

Also remember, in time any of the FWB 700 actions can be upgrade into the ALU stock. (Talk to Chuck Gartland for exact details on all the part required.)

For other parts of equipment, Jacket and Pants talk to ISS (Neal Stepp), or Centershot Sports (Janet Raab 703 266 1874) and finally Champions Choice has a line of jackets and pants. Be warned on the Champions Choice stuff I have heard there are some quality issues there... something of you get what you pay for.

Finally, it has been mentioned the idea of getting a used SSP like a FWB 601. Now if you you think you want to shoot 3P air this would not work but if you want to shoot traditional standing only air rifle you are big enough so that the charging at each shot will not be too taxing through a 60 shot match and the in price is about 1/2 your current budget. This would get you started and once you are comfortable and don't need to buy everything else too you can get into a PCP rifle and sell the 601 or whatever and get pretty much all of your money back. Something to think about.

Cheers,
'Dude

Did you see this one?

viewtopic.php?t=30914

Now, even though I personally prefer FWB for some of the same reasons listed above, this SuperAir is a good deal.

The price is so low that you could purchase the rifle and have more than enough left over from your $1600 budget to get everything else you need to compete (jacket, boots, stand, etc.)...especially if you buy that gear used as well.

I shoot an FWB 603 myself and can more than hold my own against the local duffers with their latest and greatest PCP rifles. However, we only shoot standing air. 3-Position is reserved for smallbore at the local range; as was mentioned, you don't want an SSP for 3P air, but for standing only it's perfectly fine.

As was also mentioned, after a couple of years sell the 2002 SuperAir for the same amount you bought it for. Then you can shop for whatever latest and greatest PCP when you know more about the sport, your own preferences, and have had a chance to try out all the rifles on the market.

Most air shooters, unless they're really up-tight, won't begrudge another competitor a few shot strings just to try out another rifle after the match is over. In fact, when they see you shooting an SSP, they may shove their rifle into your hands and force you to shoot it...and then they'll talk your ear off for a half-hour on why their particular rifle choice is best. Ask me how I know this...

Try one new PCP rifle at each of a half-dozen matches and you'll have shot all the big players on the market.

The SuperAir gets you shooting (at least in standing position) with all the necessary gear right now and keeps you inside your budget.

If I didn't already have a spare FWB SSP for my own teen-age son to shoot, I'd pick up this SuperAir for him to use throughout the rest of high school and into college.

Just sayin'...

P.S. I just noticed the seller is on Long Island in N.Y. That ought to be close enough to CT to drive over to his place and check it out in person.

If you are just looking, the website for ISS is useless. He likes to know and talk to his customers. The number for ISS/ Neal Stepp is 817-595-2090. Leave a msg if he doesn't answer. He works sporadic hours. Not sure if he has anything used or not. I do know he had a FWB 700 in a wood stock for 1200 for quite awile but it is gone. His price on the 700EVO was 1650 (300 cheaper than anyone else) but went up a little with the factory price increases this summer. Still cheaper than anyone else on that model but more expensive for the Walthers.
The superair for 900 is priced a little high in my opinion although it looks to be a really clean gun in great condition. However, if it was a good deal, it would of sold within a few hours of the posting. If the price gets much higher than 700 for a SSP, they don't sell.

Jon
If you don't get a shooting jacket, go to Home Depot and get a back belt. That will support your lower back when you shoot, until you get a shooting jacket.
Note that the belt is NOT legal for use in competitions.

Jon
'Dude has given you the best advice in the start of his post with contacts and names.

The best advice I can give is BUY NOTHING until you have joined a club.

I'm on a different continent but I'm sure its the same in the States, clubs will have club equipment, rifles and jackets available, and most importantly coaching and advice.

I coach newcommers, and almost with out exception every new beginer that arrives at our club with their own equipment has bought the wrong thing or at best paid too much.

Much of the equipment and particularly rifles are a matter of preference, they are all good but there are tiny differences, at a club you will have the opportunity to try most of them and pick what is best for you.

Don't buy anything yet, join a club, and then buy based on what you have tried and prefer.

Welcome to our sport and Good shooting.
Robin

Thanks everyone so much for all the input.

I have taken your advice and started looking for a club in my area. It's alot harder than I thought. I haven't found any yet, but that was before I got justadudes contact. Hopefully I'll have a reply soon.

From your input that you have given me, I think I am going Fwb. This may change once I find a club, but I haven't heard a bad thing about them.

I may have some more questions later, but once again you guys have been fantastic.

Thanks again,

Jon

There are plenty of good replies in this thread. I also think a FWB 602 or 603 would be a good idea. Generally the used Single Stroke Pneumatic (SSP) market is pretty fixed. If you buy one at a reasonable price you can sell it near that price if you upgrade later. I shot a SSP for many years and it was a fantastic rifle. The FWB 602/603 has dry fire and that is a nice option.
If you go the compressed air route, you can use a hand pump. I used a hand pump for 5 years on a Anschutz 2002CA. I got 250 shots per fill, so I kept it topped off every few practices. I have an Anschutz 9003 Precise now and it gets 300 shots per fill. Since I am in shooting with both feet I have a SCBA tank and a Bauer compressor. So filling is not an issue for me. A FX hand pump and a Anschutz 2002 CA is in your budget.
I would also suggest you post your location, some shooter may be able to help you. Here in central PA we have an active winter league that shoots from October to April. Good luck.