checking your score

redschietti · Post by **redschietti** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:21 am

My 15 yr old is shooting air rifle in her second year and doing very well. (570 3p)

One of her coaches insists that once the shot is fired in a match you cant do anything about it and you shouldnt look. She has been shooting her matches "blind" except for sighters of course.

The counter arguement is that you could have the sights off a little and shoot a whole bunch of 9's in exactly the same spot. Something you could correct if you checked each shot with the scope.

Thoughts?

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:05 pm

I'd argue that you should look - one of the reasons being just as you mention.

The other is that psychologically we want to feed on good news - it makes us happy and perform well. When you shoot a good shot then you should praise yourself and feel a good buzz, you then carry that buzz with you for the next shot. If you shoot a poor shot then you move on - if you know you had a technical error then you reaffirm the positive attributes associated with not repeating it, and think of the next good shot.

For me not looking is a bit of a copp out if you can't mentally cope with the feedback that shot tells you.

Rob.

xnoncents · Post by **xnoncents** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:54 pm

The coach is right in one respect, you cannot unshoot a shot. But, you are the master of your fate not a passive bystander to it.
Both 'The Ways of The Rifle', and the high power rifle champion David Tubb's books pretty much advocate a similar approach: A kind of bifurcated brain. The psychological part and the results reality. On the one hand, each shot is made as if it were a match of it's own. Every effort is made to not allow any negative score shot to result in a negative effect psychologically on the next shot. Way more difficult than it sounds. But, at the same time both sources advocate adjusting the sights when they see a negative trend building after more than one shot, (after re checking npa, inner position etc.). How can you know a negative trend is building without seeing the shot result? Both caution against psyching yourself out. Being able to call your shots really helps on the judgement call of when to click or not.
All that said, I am curious what the current trend on this is in coaching?

gtrisdale · Post by **gtrisdale** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:42 pm

Watch the world class shooters. (You can watch videos of world cup finals on the ISSF web page.) They look at every shot on their monitor (electonic targets). They want to know when things are going well and when to make a change. This is what I coach and it has worked well for our juniors. Several of them have set national records and won medals at National matches.

Tim S · Post by **Tim S** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:25 pm

There is one way to do both,

Look at the target, but don't focus on the score. Instead look at the shot, and whether it went where you expected, and how if fits into your group. The development of your group is important; x no of 10s is great, but more useful is that the group is just on the edge of the bull.

Tim

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:26 am

Tim S wrote:There is one way to do both,

Look at the target, but don't focus on the score. Instead look at the shot, and whether it went where you expected, and how if fits into your group. The development of your group is important; x no of 10s is great, but more useful is that the group is just on the edge of the bull.

Tim

You absolutely should not focus on the score but you can't help seeing that. What you are concerned with though is that one shot (and group position). Tracking the cumulative score is a bad thing that will absolutely detract from performance.

Rob.

redschietti · Post by **redschietti** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:29 am

Good discussion!

Another thing to think about: She knows when she shoots an 8 even without looking. I can see it in her body language. Perhaps knowing she has already shot several deep 10's would far outweigh the neg from one bad shot??

skylark · Post by **skylark** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:27 am

She should be getting in the habit of looking at every shot. If/when she gets on to big competitions and electronic targets, she needs to report any target malfunction immediately.

Alternatively, if/when she's shooting on whizzers, I don't think it's possible to change them without at least some awareness of where the shot's going, and that might put her off if she's used to not knowing.

Coaching-wise, training without looking at the shots is common when you're focusing on one particular thing, but I've never seen anyone suggest you do it in a match unless you have someone spotting for you. Quite apart from the psychological issues, you've got to know if something goes horribly wrong and not just keep putting more bad shots down there.

WesternGrizzly · Post by **WesternGrizzly** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:11 pm

I can understand where the coach is coming from, but she should be looking at the shots. Its should be part of her shot program to call the shot and look at the shot to confirm the shot call.

The shot program in that area should look something like this.

Break the shot.
Follow through while watching recoil.
Call shot after follow through settles.
Look at shot.
Is the shot on call?
If the answer is yes then open bolt.
If the answer is no then ask why not?
What can I do to make sure that my shot was on call?
Open bolt.

Once the bolt opens the shot is GONE!! Never to be thought about again (sort of). You no longer need to think about the result of that shot. And once the bolt closes the next shot begins, and the shot process starts over.
Best wishes,
Matt

RobinC · Post by **RobinC** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:06 am

You should not be score focused or be mentally adding up, the precise degree of a sqeaky shot i.e. in or out is not important during the shoot, but it is important to get a feel for where the shot has gone to check that the call is correct and that there is no drift from the perfect zero both sighting and position. Things change during a shoot, and sights may need a click here or there or a minute positional tweak may be necessary.
Also I'd be sugesting that you should not be able to tell from a shooters body language the value of a shot and that she could usefully work on practising being impassive, a reaction can be negative and build tension for the next shot.
Good shooting
Robin

xnoncents · Post by **xnoncents** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:39 am

The fact that she can tell when she has had a poor shot before looking is good. Especially if she can 'call' the location correctly. That is a big part of the game. Mastering negativity, and the telegraphing of it does need to be brought under control. Kind of a zen thing, part of what makes shooting so difficult. Witness Matt Emmons silently mouthing curses or Sonjia Pfeilschifter slaming down her rifle on ISSF video of World Cups, after a performance that does not meet their expectations and you will appreciate that even the greats struggle with this.

I too, have been coached on occasion to fire on a completely blank piece of paper, but with with different goals than your daughters coach was suggesting.

Sounds like your daughter is on a good road, good luck.

RobinC · Post by **RobinC** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:42 am

As xnoncents says yes it is good that she knows that its a bad shot but equally no one other than her should be able to tell from her body language, part of mastering negativity is to not show any, because the top people occasionaly do it does not make it right, they sometimes drop points as well.
Sorry, I forgot to also add my congratulations, she is doing very well you must be very proud.
Good shooting.
Robin

redschietti · Post by **redschietti** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:24 am

This has been a good thread!! Thanks for the input.

Flashmo · Post by **Flashmo** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:27 pm

The key is to check your shot and confirm its placement, but DO NOT add up your score.