TargetTalk

You can look at my previous tests here:

viewtopic.php?t=23073

I just did a new test with a new batch of pellets; JSB Green, R10 Heavy, R10 Light, and Webley (Crosman rebranded) Match Pell.

The test was done as previously: 30 feet, 25 shot groups measured at the widest point, subtract .177 for center-to-center group size. I used a Steyr LP1.

We'll start with the Webley/Crosman. I wanted to try these because once upon a time I shot 10 straight 10s on a single target with them (I saved the target, shot with a FWB65).

They Crosman shot the largest group with a .480. This was a nice round group with no flyers. This would have still cleaned the 10 ring. They might do well in another gun. The tin went into the "try some other time" pile.

The R10 Rifle shot a .362 and the R10 Pistol shot a .323. Both excellent and would clean "inner 10's".

Last come the JSB Green (pistol). This brand produced the smallest groups of any pellet in my three previous tests. They did it again.

Keep in mind that this was a new pellet batch in a different gun. The first group I shot had one pellet that opened the group (a little). Disregarding this, the group was .305. I shot another 25 shot group and this time it came up .315. Ya gotta luv 'em!

Really, the only thing (but I think it's important) I got from all these tests, is that the light pellets (in a pistol) seem to be the way to go.

I had my gun set up to shoot the heavy pellets around 525 fps. This then shot the light pellets around 570; an increase of around 45 fps. This is not important except that it sure makes the holes in the target a bit cleaner, helpful with the low powered guns.

I use the light RWS Basic pellets quite a bit, but if I were suffering from deep insecurity I would certainly be buying the JSB Green or R10 light pellets.

Disagree? Do your own damn tests!

PS It was 118 degrees here yesterday. I had to stay home and do something besides drink beer. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's Sunday morning now...time for bagels, lox, and mimosas.

PS: I did a test on a fresh tin of RWS Hobby this a.m. A pretty round group at .375" if you disregard one shot that opened the group to .435. That's damn good for the price.

I shoot an IZh 46m and it shoots most pellets well. I use rws basic as cheap practice, but may do some serious testing with others. Good
info from you.

C'on you guys. I answer a question that's asked here all the time and no one has anything to say? I know many of you disagree.

Then again, I may be right...

I'll go sweep up after last night's monster monsoon dust storm now. But maybe it's just Obama blowing smoke up our ass again.

Hi Rover

Thank you for confirming what I have been saying for sometime - I have met a great deal of subjective discussion about the use of rifle pellets in a pistol, and when questioned on such a matter, those who stand by this fail to give any logical reason. I have used the JSB greens since swapping from R10s and they produce super groups in both my lp10 and lp50, I can run them at a lower fps and hence save (a little) on hammer spring wear etc + get more shots per charge.

Nice to see some objective data at last :-)

Lee

Geez Rover...I hate to sound patronizing, but Yes, I totally agree with what
you say. I use Basics for training(practice..he he) because a good release
will go into the inner ten with any of my pistols, including my Marksman 2004!
I also found the JSB Match Green pellet to be very accurate for my LP1-C.

Tony

Rover, is your LP1 a CO2 LP1 or an air LP1 ?

Air, but don't think for a second that I have changed my stand on SSPs and FWB 65, 80, and 90s. They are fully equal and I prefer an SSP for simplicity and ease.

I bought the LP1 because I got an entire outfit VERY cheaply and I was getting a bit annoyed with the CO2 guns in the desert heat. I also like new toys.

I agree as well, if only slightly. I was using the 8.2g Meisterkugelns for a time as my local gun shop had no light pellets, and found the trajectory was a bigger curve than the 7g Meisters or Basics or R10 Pistols. The heavier, slower pellets (also seemed to apply with RWS Sport) seem to leave more time for post-firing errors in hold, as much as any other sort of speed-related error. Just a fraction longer in the long barrel makes for a slightly longer gap between firing and the pellet clearing the crown cannot be a good thing. With the lighting where I shoot at home it's fairly easy to watch the pellet arc on sunny days, and it's plainly a flatter arc with the faster pellets.

Not sure I'll try any ultra-light pellets though. My results with the Basics and Meister 7g are consistent enough with my called shots so that I'm not concerned about the pellets... just about my training and ability to hold. Where I shoot is pretty much where they hit. I've even shot pellets backwards twice by mistake, noticing as I pressed them into the barrel and found the pressure needed to be excessive. Examining the pellets in the target after those shots - I shoot into duct seal with the paper smoothed against it, cleaning all pellets and re-smoothing between every target of 10 shots - shows that they hit exactly where I thought they did and that they travelled true, no tilting whatsoever. I'm not going to make a habit of shooting backwards pellets of course, but it's nice to know the pistol is fast enough as to obviate any significant difference in results with even such a gross error in pellet aerodynamics.

With the lighting where I shoot at home it's fairly easy to watch the pellet arc on sunny days, and it's plainly a flatter arc with the faster pellets.

Gerard.
You are meant to be watching the front sight.
Whenever I see a pellet in flight, I know my focus has strayed off the front sight and it explains why my scores have dropped.
Try not to see the pellet arc and your scores will improve.
Good luck

I am painfully aware of that, but thanks for the reminder. It's worse when I see the pellet's impact on the target, the new hole appearing, when I know that it should be significantly out of focus. Working on it, always... But to be fair to myself, with the lighting in my place from a window even a very blurry pellet in flight can often be seen, peripherally, without trying to see it at all and in fact still clearly focused on the front sight.

I have to use slightly heavier pellets out pf necessity and they do okay.
In fact our regional brand pellet had me confused at the last competition.
They shot so well that I was in two minds whether I shoot use the Vogels (yellow tin) in the match. The only reason I picked the lighter Vogels was because the local brand still had some irregular skirts.

I also beefed up my Lp 10's power from the factory set 425fps to 470fps and then my chrono started to misbehave. But so far my pistol shoots okay with 8 grain pellets. Having said that the Vogels shoot smaller groups and tear the target more cleanly though.


Regards,

Dev

Something to watch out for when buying pellets is whether the tins have been dropped. Twice now I have seen skirts flattened on some percentage of pellets in a tin, and both times the tins had been dropped. The first time I didn't notice the dent in the tin until after finding some pellets flattened. The second time, I was watching the guy who pulled them from the locked display and was walking with my five tins to the checkout (at Army & Navy Department Store and perhaps other places, they don't trust people to take their own pellets to the counter) when he dropped one tin. There was a substantial dent, but I was in a good mood and gave it the benefit of a doubt. Wrong decision. Fully 1/3 of the pellets were so badly distorted that they could not be used. It was a chore working my way through that tin, inspecting every one. Just thought I'd mention this in case anyone shopping for a deal on practice pellets spots a dented tin in the mix. Put that one back, or point it out to the store staff as damaged goods and not suitable for sale.

So Dev, I feel for you working with inconsistent pellets from your local supplier. But it sounds like you can at least order some decent pellets for competition, even if your cost in India is a bit extreme.

Thank you Rover.

De nada, Julio.

Dev, I didn't mean to imply heavy pellets are worthless. In my tests they were only slightly (and I mean slightly) less accurate. In your gun they may be far better. I sure wouldn't worry about it.

Gerard, I'd consider a pair of shooting glasses to keep your point of focus closer to you.

I found the point of impact change from light to heavy pellets unnoticeable. I once shot 5 Hobby (6.9 gr)and 5 JSB S100 (8.4 gr) at a single target with a K60 and scored 98.

Got glasses, an older set of Vargas thanks to v76. They arrived about a week ago and I found the lens wasn't right, so I've been practising with just the iris stopped down to minimum which almost allows focus on the front sight, but was keeping my scores down a few percent. No matter of course. Trigger time is what it's about.

Then today I got a bit desperate to do something about focus, so I went to a dollar store and found a pair of +1 reading glasses with a lens just big enough to cut down for the Varga lens holder. That job took five minutes, to cut it out (plastic cuts well enough with a fine fretsaw) and file round and file a bevel onto it for locking into the frame. Worked a charm. My first target with a proper focus on the front sight 41" away from my eye resulted in a 91, with 5 nicely overlapping holes right in the middle and a few slight strays when my attention wasn't adequate. I'm going to enjoy these glasses a lot more now. I cut out the other lens just the same for a spare, for when the first gets a bit fogged from cleaning. The two should hold me until I get around to a visit to the local shooting glasses specialist in the next town over for a full optical workup and a custom glass lens.

I'd been using a pair of +1.25 reading glasses with a Kydex shield and a small hole drilled and countersunk, and that was sort of adequate, but the crisp iris on the Varga aperture and the subtle control over location adjustment is quite nice to work with. And of course they don't slip down every time I load the pistol. Can't beat the real thing. And I didn't see a single pellet in flight during this evening's session. The improved visual focus makes it a lot easier to concentrate on just the front sight.

And I didn't see a single pellet in flight during this evening's session. The improved visual focus makes it a lot easier to concentrate on just the front sight.

Now you are talking. I knew you could do it.
Cheers Colin

Gerard wrote:
So Dev, I feel for you working with inconsistent pellets from your local supplier. But it sounds like you can at least order some decent pellets for competition, even if your cost in India is a bit extreme.

Well we have some good news with our state shooting organisation beginning the import of pellets again. This will work out pretty reasonable though we are limited to a tin a month. Now another guy has materialized selling JSB pellets, online.

Bit more expensive but it is easier to pay more than try to get em in as an individual the shipping from the USA is $73, almost the same as buying eight tins of meisters from PA.

At the moment I am pretty happy with the way things are. Not shooting that much, playing with other airguns to get my mind out of the intensity of competition.

Regards,

Dev