TargetTalk

Does anybody here know for a fact if Karl Kenyon soldered barrels into Anschutz 54 actions? My friend is working on one and having a bear of a time getting the barrel off. He did some asking around and folks seem to remember that was how he did them. Does anybody know for sure?

I do not think he soldered barrels on Anschutz guns. He took out the pressed and pinned barrels and then he threaded the actions and installed the new barrel.

This one has pins that came out in slivers. Perhaps they were cosmetic. I will pass the info on, but my friend is familiar with threaded Anschutz 54's as that is how he generally does it as well. He has had three bad rebarrels of 54's last week! This one and two others that "were threaded in" but were actually acraglassed in!

He used Lock-tight on them.

Karl did silver solder many barrels into Anschutz actions

I just talked with my friend last night about this again. He still has not removed the barrel. He has broken his receiver wrench twice trying. He has tried MAPP gas and propane with no luck. Acetylene torch is the next option. He his a very expereienced and competant rimfire gunsmith; he does all guns, but is into the accurate rimfires with a passion. I will report the progress. He doesn't want to jump right in and bore this out unless absolutely necessary.

I can't imagine anyone silver soldering a barrel to an action. The extra heat needed to melt silver can cause metal embrittlement of the steel. That said, it is not a good idea to use an oxy-acetylene torch to break the barrel free. MAPP also is a bad idea as it produces a lot of hydrogen which can find it's way into the metal and change its ductility. The fact that you have broken two action wrenches on a heated receiver, well, I'd say toast
Chris

There are no locking lugs up front on this and most rimfires. Heat isn't going to hurt a thing as long as it doesn't cause warpage. This rimfire action wrench is not nearly as rugged as a centerfire wrench; there are 3/16" pins that can break and be replaced.

Some rimfire barrels are threaded in, some are pressed in, some are sweat in, some are pinned in and some use a combination of a couple methods.

ETA: How could I leave out the clamping method of 2000 series Anschutz???

OK here is what the deal is. The barrel has finally been removed. My friend cut a relief groove with a parting tool at the receiver junction. The barrel then unscrewed out. It was threaded in and tightened some kind of monster tight.

Talked to a knowledgeable friend last night. Seems the problem is in the indexing of the rifle barrel for the extractor grooves. If the gunsmith takes too large a cut off the shoulder of the barrel, they would peen the shoulder and make it too tight, then gorilla the barrel into position. Others would coat the barrel threads with lapping compound to fit the barrel in position and not have it change position. I think this happens a lot as it is really hard to get that barrel shoulder cut just right, and I have removed more than a few tightly bound barrels.
Chris

During the 1990's Kenyon cut back 4 Anchutz 1413 barreled actions for me. All were returned without the pins that held the barrel in the action as the barrels had been silver soldered in place. Extractor grooves cut with file by hand.
One came back with the muzzle end bored out to remove the "choke".
All four actions had been squared at the front.

I have had many Kenyon round action 54's in my shop, and to date have never witnessed one he silver soldered in place (certainly doesn't mean they don't exist for sure though!).

Karl was IMHO the last true, great RF gunsmith of our era. The rifles he built have earned more titles than any other - without a single hint of self promotion. The work he did almost completely by hand will probably never be replicated.

Re-barreling one of his actions is never easy - I think he set up each by hand, so there are no two thread patterns dimensionally alike.

Regarding the pins - as a smith, I can't formulate a way they can be replaced. When Anschutz installs them, the holes are drilled thru the action and shank while they are one homogenous mass. If you try to install them in a replacement barrel, the drill bit walks on the angled shank surface and the result is never good. You can mill flats or recesses in the shank to clear the pins for reinstallation, but what's the point - they certainly serve no function.

Personally, I like to glue replacement barrels in place, and have had great success with it. I turn the shank for a very light press fit (that can be assembled and disassembled by hand - maintaining concentricity between the action and barrel), and use Loctite retaining fluid (609) to glue the two together while fixtured in my lathe.

For the extractor slot location (for threaded barrels) I remove them and fit / test the barrel at a suitable installation torque. Using tooling die, I mark extractor locations, disassemble the barrel / action and cut the slots. That's the only way to do it successfully (insuring the proper amount of barrel installation torque) that I know of. It means assembling / disassembling a bunch of times - but it's worth it for sure.

Too much installation torque is not good for accuracy. It creates a concentration of stress and bore distortion at the shoulder / action face junction - which lies just in front of the chamber in this case (just where you don't want it!). In my humble opinion, the connection can't be too loose though - it has to effectively transmit vibration - but too tight is probably far worse.

I don't like threading round 54 actions though - the action material is already thin where the forward screw is located (under the barrel tennon), threading just shortens the engagement further. Wood stocks tend to compress over time, and a lot of these rifles have had the action screw eventually contact the tennon (I have repaired many forward stripped action screws in these actions). Getting a threaded barrel off after some thread damage due to this phenomenon is also not friendly.

Sorry to meander - I wish you the best with the barrel replacement!

kev

...and on occasion, when the rifle is bedded some of the compound might just work its way up through the bottom of the old pin holes around the barrel shank threads in the action and make barrel removal...uh....challenging!

1813benny wrote:...and on occasion, when the rifle is bedded some of the compound might just work its way up through the bottom of the old pin holes around the barrel shank threads in the action and make barrel removal...uh....challenging!

Simple solution... don't bed the action!

Justin Tracy

A bedded gun I got back from Kenyon had a dab of modeling clay in the hole. Action slipped in and out, no problem.

Or you find an undrilled action. I have a Kenyon barreled Anschutz, a pretty rare thing I guess in the UK. The previous owner acquired an unfinished action (no barrel = no pin holes) and shipped it to the US where Kenyon threaded it for a Schneider barrel. The customer had asked for a Hart but Karl recommended a Schneider for greater longevity.

It still shoots very nicely twenty-two years later.

Did all Karl's barrels have the thicker section at the shoulder?

kevin nevius wrote:I have had many Kenyon round action 54's in my shop, and to date have never witnessed one he silver soldered in place (certainly doesn't mean they don't exist for sure though!). .....

I don't like threading round 54 actions though - the action material is already thin where the forward screw is located (under the barrel tennon), threading just shortens the engagement further. Wood stocks tend to compress over time, and a lot of these rifles have had the action screw eventually contact the tennon (I have repaired many forward stripped action screws in these actions). Getting a threaded barrel off after some thread damage due to this phenomenon is also not friendly.

kev

If threading the Anschutz 54 receiver, best to mill a relief on the bottom of the barrel under the front action screw like Win. did on the 52. Gives you a little more full threads on the action screw and no threads to mess up if you do happen to bottom out the screw.

What I want to know is why anyone would take apart a barreled action that Karl put together? There are a finite number of his work and I can't think of what would make it shoot better with someone else's work.

Also Karl did not fill the pin holes in an Anschutz action.

I agree (regarding tearing apart Karl's work), unfortunately, barrels do wear out..........even in smallbore shooting!

Using modeling clay to fill voids when bedding is a very common practice. It's the easiest (and best) way to keep epoxy from getting somewhere it shouldn't be. I have had actions Karl bedded in the shop with traces of clay - as I said, very common practice.

Adding a relief cut to the shank is a good idea for sure - but is an extra step (and I am inherently lazy!! LOL).

Karl used a lot of Schneider barrels, and the configurations seem to vary a little. Most had an enlarged section at the shoulder of the shank for more surface area at the contact point. Most I have seen have had it.

Ken - I remember trying to get that barrel off, that was fun. I think we invented some new swear words that night as I remember!

kev

kevin nevius wrote:
Ken - I remember trying to get that barrel off, that was fun. I think we invented some new swear words that night as I remember!

kev

I thought that the action was going to be twisted about 15 deg by the time it finally started to turn! Bedding compound makes a GREAT thread locker!