TargetTalk

I see guys at the World Cup with a lot of rake in their A/P grips. What is supposed to be the advantage? Or is there any?

Champ600 wrote:I see guys at the World Cup with a lot of rake in their A/P grips. What is supposed to be the advantage? Or is there any?

Rake is a personal thing and some people (and nations) prefer a more upright gun, others a more sloping grip. The general trend is for lighter triggered guns to be more sloping, and heavier triggers / more powerful guns to be more upright. Try it for yourself if you're curious and see if it works for you.

Rob.

I've read that more rake will help increase wrist stability, however, less rake is better for heavy recoiling pistols.
I like a lot of rake but I can't get as much in my Morini AP as my Hammerli FP.

A lot of rake can be hard on your elbow. I can't shoot with as much rake as some factory grips require without elbow pain. New grips or shimming is required.

As above it's always a compromise and a personal thing. A very raked gun may give you better wrist stability because you can 'lock it out'. The downside is that that can put stress elsewhere and cause pain and problems down the line.

Rob.

Gwhite wrote:A lot of rake can be hard on your elbow. I can't shoot with as much rake as some factory grips require without elbow pain. New grips or shimming is required.

I wasn't aware of the relationship rake had to pain. I'm going to have to try reducing my rake. Thanks, Gwhite and Rob!

Freepistol wrote:I wasn't aware of the relationship rake had to pain. I'm going to have to try reducing my rake. Thanks, Gwhite and Rob!

It is generally accepted that there CAN (not 'will') be a connection between a raked grip and tennis elbow, particularly if the elbow is locked when holding the pistol.

There are some simple wrist exercises that seem to alleviate and/or prevent tennis elbow.

Freepistol wrote:I've read that more rake will help increase wrist stability, however, less rake is better for heavy recoiling pistols.
I like a lot of rake but I can't get as much in my Morini AP as my Hammerli FP.

Hammerli FP can have (rake is adjustable on several Hammerli models) an extreme rake. I do not know any other pistol that can have as much rake.

For Morini AP with electronic trigger, the rake is fixed and cannot be modified due to the electronic printed circuit board located in the grip. It is the same for the Morini FP CM84E. Most other brands/models provide some rake adjustability including other AP with electronic trigger like the LP10E but cannot go as extreme as the Hammerli FP. The reason for that extreme rake for FP is exactly what Rob explained: more rake for ligth trigger weigth.

Actually, for FP and also AP, each shooter should adjust the rake in such a way that the pistol aims at the target with his wrist tilted down at his maximum. When this is the case, no wrist effort is needed to maintain the pistol aimed. So, rake depends of each shooters anatomy and should be adjustable.

Hi jipe, I think the FEG-gpm series has the most rake I've seen. It has so

much rake, that it's hard not to be pointing into the tree tops with my

normal stance!

tony

I'd read this http://www.pilkguns.com/anatoli.shtml (and the 2nd part) before propagating any rumours. Anatoli has some interesting things to say about holding a pistol, and I happen to agree with many of them, after trying everything else :-)

jipe wrote:

Freepistol wrote:I've read that more rake will help increase wrist stability, however, less rake is better for heavy recoiling pistols.
I like a lot of rake but I can't get as much in my Morini AP as my Hammerli FP.

Hammerli FP can have (rake is adjustable on several Hammerli models) an extreme rake. I do not know any other pistol that can have as much rake.

For Morini AP with electronic trigger, the rake is fixed and cannot be modified due to the electronic printed circuit board located in the grip. It is the same for the Morini FP CM84E. Most other brands/models provide some rake adjustability including other AP with electronic trigger like the LP10E but cannot go as extreme as the Hammerli FP. The reason for that extreme rake for FP is exactly what Rob explained: more rake for ligth trigger weigth.

Actually, for FP and also AP, each shooter should adjust the rake in such a way that the pistol aims at the target with his wrist tilted down at his maximum. When this is the case, no wrist effort is needed to maintain the pistol aimed. So, rake depends of each shooters anatomy and should be adjustable.

Hi Jipe,
You're right about the Hammeli's rake. I had a 152 and that had way more than my 162. Also, I found that after laying off FP shooting for awhile, I needed to take some rake out, however, it didn't take much shooting/dry fire to get the flexibility back in my wrist.
Ben

jipe wrote: Actually, for FP and also AP, each shooter should adjust the rake in such a way that the pistol aims at the target with his wrist tilted down at his maximum. When this is the case, no wrist effort is needed to maintain the pistol aimed. So, rake depends of each shooters anatomy and should be adjustable.

Sorry I don't agree with that, in part for the reasons already mentioned. At it's maximum downward tilt, effort is required to hold the pistol in that position. Extremes of the movement range, if held for long periods of time will cause stress and can lead to problems down the line. Get a 'natural' point of aim so that the gun points in the right place and it will make your life easier.

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote:

jipe wrote: Actually, for FP and also AP, each shooter should adjust the rake in such a way that the pistol aims at the target with his wrist tilted down at his maximum. When this is the case, no wrist effort is needed to maintain the pistol aimed. So, rake depends of each shooters anatomy and should be adjustable.

Sorry I don't agree with that, in part for the reasons already mentioned. At it's maximum downward tilt, effort is required to hold the pistol in that position. Extremes of the movement range, if held for long periods of time will cause stress and can lead to problems down the line. Get a 'natural' point of aim so that the gun points in the right place and it will make your life easier.

Rob.

When I say at the maximum downward tilt, it means at the maximum without an effort to maintain it at that position. If an effort is needed to tilt down, it will cause the same problems as when an effort is needed to move the barrel up = when you get tired like at the final series of the 60 shots, you will "forget" to do this effort and aiming errors may occur.

Now, I also agree with freepistol: you need to train your wrist flexibility. In my case, in the beginning of each shooting session, I need a couple of shots to "warm up" my wrist felxibility, after those initial shots, my wrist remains tilted downward witout any effort and there is also no effort needed to move up the barrel to aim at the target.

Last point, wrist flexibility is very different for each shooter, women have usually more flexibility than men. Same for FP trigger weigth: I hear frequently people saying that below XXg, you cannot control the trigger anymore but actually, there is no value valid for everybody, these XXg are different for each shooter and there is an optimal value for each shooter, not too low, not too high neither.