TargetTalk

Got my recently bought Hammerli 215S and took it to the range for a try.
From what I can see its a fine performer, but I was getting ftf's after the first 40 or so shots.
Used Fiocchi 300SM ammo, which looks be somewhat too waxy; In fact after the first box, there was this wax grime all over the innards.
I chose this ammo because it was the best low velocity pistol fodder I could find.
A fellow shooter gave me a box of Federal Premium Gold Medal 711B to test; Worked well but this is really not pistol ammo.

I was wondering if I could wipe some of the excess wax off the rounds ???
Dont know if its feasible or practical.

schatzperson wrote:I was wondering if I could wipe some of the excess wax off the rounds ???
Dont know if its feasible or practical.

Yes you can, it's not unusual to have to.

You are unlikely to remove all of the lubricant and what is left will be enough.

Was thinking maybe a rag with a bit of WD40 would do the trick (but somebody told me its not good for barrels or burns /leaves some complicated chemisty whatever).
Kerosene dissolves wax but I will end up smelling like my grandpappy's loft (bless his soul :-)

schatzperson wrote:Was thinking maybe a rag with a bit of WD40 would do the trick (but somebody told me its not good for barrels or burns /leaves some complicated chemisty whatever).
Kerosene dissolves wax but I will end up smelling like my grandpappy's loft (bless his soul :-)

Would recommend not to use WD40 as the chemical, depending upon how much chemical is used on each bullet and how long it sits, could possibly seep down around the bullet into the powder. The bullets typically aren't seated that tightly into the case to prevent that kind of seepage, especially from a penetrating oil. Just a clean rag and elbow grease should be sufficient. The odds might be low of anything from happening but why take the risk.

schatzperson wrote:Got my recently bought Hammerli 215S and took it to the range for a try.
From what I can see its a fine performer, but I was getting ftf's after the first 40 or so shots.
Used Fiocchi 300SM ammo, which looks be somewhat too waxy; In fact after the first box, there was this wax grime all over the innards.
I chose this ammo because it was the best low velocity pistol fodder I could find.
A fellow shooter gave me a box of Federal Premium Gold Medal 711B to test; Worked well but this is really not pistol ammo.

I was wondering if I could wipe some of the excess wax off the rounds ???
Dont know if its feasible or practical.

Federal 711B is right at 1,080 ft/sec. and is one of my favorite pistol rimfire ammo for indoor 50' Gallery Course competition. ... I use it in my Benelli MP90S & Unique pistols. ... Very consistant ammo.

To avoid possible solvent contamination, I think I will just warm things up a bit and wipe off then excess.
I was under the impression that Federal 711B is really rifle ammo.
Both this and Fiocchi SM300 cost about the same, around 8 Euro per box. I can get CCI Standard and Fiocchi Maxac for half this price and might be good for volume practice; But dont know if its advisable to practice and compete with two different loads.

schatzperson wrote:To avoid possible solvent contamination, I think I will just warm things up a bit and wipe off then excess.
I was under the impression that Federal 711B is really rifle ammo.
Both this and Fiocchi SM300 cost about the same, around 8 Euro per box. I can get CCI Standard and Fiocchi Maxac for half this price and might be good for volume practice; But dont know if its advisable to practice and compete with two different loads.

You could just heat up a rag and that should do the trick. Just don't use a wet rage as the water could do the same thing, especially warm or hot water can make it easier to migrate and then there is the issue of corrosion problems.

Mass Shooter wrote:Federal 711B is right at 1,080 ft/sec

From what length barrel?

From what I understand 711B was developed for specifically pistols (US Olympic team????) and the 719 for small bore rifles. Both are in identical boxes except for the small code number written on one end. There have since been Gold Medal 992A and UM22A developed, both of which I think are for rifle.
I have used the 711B in my IZH-35M for about four years now and find it the most accurate ammo out of the pistol. Over a sandbag at 25m, the shots hold a 25mm (1 inch) group. I imagine in a ransom rest I would expect a much smaller hole.
Cheers Colin

schatzperson wrote: I was under the impression that Federal 711B is really rifle ammo.
Both this and Fiocchi SM300 cost about the same, around 8 Euro per box. I can get CCI Standard and Fiocchi Maxac for half this price and might be good for volume practice; But dont know if its advisable to practice and compete with two different loads.

Please don't judge these ammos by their relative costs. Federal and CCI are both owned by the same parent US company. And in the US, Federal 711B and CCI SV cost about the same. Why there would be a significant price difference in Europe is beyond me.

Fiocchi SM300 is their top grade of ammo, but probably does not have enough energy to reliably cycle a semi-auto handgun. It is marvelous free pistol ammo, though. And Fiocchi Maxac is, in my opinion, very poorly made, inconsistent and harsh feeling.

If CCI SV works well for you and is also less expensive, why would you want anything else? And if Federal 711B works well for you, why would it matter whether someone called it "rifle ammo.?

HTH,
FredB

I had the same waxy ammo experience using a Benelli and Aguila SV ammo -- occasional FTF. I wiped the bullets off with a terry cloth rag during my pre-match prep time and had no further problems.

Took the Hammerli 215S to the range again today and ot seems I might have been wrong about putting the blame on too waxy ammo.
I was getting failure to feed and this morning I noticed that all the failures were the lower part of the bullet hitting the ramp just where it joins the barrell and jamming there.
It gets stuck there at an angle and its a bugger to remove because the rim is still in the magazine lips.
Tried all sorts of ammo today and the effect is always the type of hang-up about every 10 to 20 shots, sometimes more often.

It looks as if the round is moving forward at NOT steep enough an angle and gets the soft lead bullet squashed at the ramp / barrel join.
In fact, to un-jam I force the round in the breach and always end up with a crescent shape lead piece cut off as the round chambers.

Possible causes ?
Mag lips, feedramp/chamfer, recoil spring ???
Scratching head right now, Hammerli 208/215's are supposed to be infallible, cant get a lemon can we here !

Federal has/had three grades of it's Gold Medal target ammo, all with the Soviet patented primer flash-directing "dimple", for the use of which, they paid a handsome royalty. They are/were, in increasing quality/cost, 711(now 711B), 900, and 1000. The cost of the two higher grades were/are in line with other top quality target ammo. This was before being sold to CCI. Not sure if 900 & 1000 are made anymore, just getting back into competitive pistol shooting after a 5 year hiatus.

Paul

Are you referring to a dimple in the base of the .22 case so that the priming compound can flow evenly to the edges of the case before setting? I have seen it on some ammo a few years back, might have even been Federal
Gold Medal Federal 711B does not have that dimple, not on the two cases I have bought over the past couple of years.

Other site observation on the dimple:

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php? ... 231.0;wap2

I have been competitive shooting for over 50 years. This problem regularly comes up with some of the ammo that is a few years old.

The Hammerli, and some of the newer gun sre very tight in the breach, and it is not unusual for the gun to foul up after about 40 shots.
It also makes a difference in hot or cold weather when the ammo has been stored form a while.

Yes, a lightly oiled rag will remove most of the wax.
It will also help the brass to be a bit more slippery when it goes into the breach, or magazine.

When I have a few years old ammo, and I am going to a competition, I empty the whole box, and go right through it all with an oily rag.
It is a good meditation, and checks the individual ammo as well, making sure it is in good condition.

I hope this helps, and reinforces what others have said. Alex L.

I will have a go at wiping the ammo next range time. While I understand the tight chamber on some target gun issue I find it a bit disappointing really.

That said the sort of jams I am getting, with the bullet hitting the ramp/barrel join and getting stuck there with the rim still held by magazine lips, might indicate a cause other than wax.

"Possible causes ?
Mag lips, feedramp/chamfer, recoil spring ??? "

Likely to be none of these. Suggest you take your magazine apart and thoroughly clean and then lubricate the insides with a dry lubricant.

Dont think so Leon, I took the mag apart, cleaned and lightly lubricated it before use.
I am looking at the sharp top of that feed ramp with one beady eye and a dremel for a cutlass in my right hand !

Mmm - be careful.

Before embarking on major surgery upon your 215, do you have another magazine you can try?