Hello,
I am a junior in highschool and i want to continue in shooting as far as possible. What are the advantages or disadvantages in shooting on a college team? Also, If i couldn't get on a college team, what would i be able to do to continue my shooting career?
Thanks
Question on College shooting
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
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silentfury214
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:07 am
- Location: Tennessee
Shooting on a College Rifle team:
1) I would go to [collegerifle dot com] and begin your looking there .... many good pages.
2) Start getting your information to the NCAA Eligibility center (You'll also hear it called the "clearinghouse" [eligibilitycenter dot org]
3) Go to the CMP and download Brad Donoho's articles in the "On The Mark" magazines
4) As a junior know that collegiate coaches cannot really begin recruiting until after July 1 or so ... exceptions to that are the military academies that are able to talk in your junior year.
5) Make sure you understand the time commitments, both practice & travel. If you are looking at a "harder" degree program ask about redshirting part of your time at college as you may need an extra year to graduate.
6) Shoot in national matches where the coaches are to get some "How ya doin" face time ... You can say HI and introduce yourself, but know that they cannot really talk about their programs until your senior year.
7) ALSO... start shooting NCAA type strings ... 60 shot standing and 3x20 smallbore rifle to have a "resume" of scores for the coaches to see
If you are not on a team or at a school that does not have a team:
a) You can still shoot! and believe it or not still qualify for "All American" status.
b) The NRA has a set of sectionals across the country in which collegiate teams AND INDIVIDUALS can qualify for the NRA Collegiate Nationals .. check out the link:
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/coldir.asp
This year the match is at The Citadel in Charleston, SC.
Keep an eye out on the NRA website for info on who is hosting sectionals
This is just a starting point and there are some collegiate coaches that watch this board ...
1) I would go to [collegerifle dot com] and begin your looking there .... many good pages.
2) Start getting your information to the NCAA Eligibility center (You'll also hear it called the "clearinghouse" [eligibilitycenter dot org]
3) Go to the CMP and download Brad Donoho's articles in the "On The Mark" magazines
4) As a junior know that collegiate coaches cannot really begin recruiting until after July 1 or so ... exceptions to that are the military academies that are able to talk in your junior year.
5) Make sure you understand the time commitments, both practice & travel. If you are looking at a "harder" degree program ask about redshirting part of your time at college as you may need an extra year to graduate.
6) Shoot in national matches where the coaches are to get some "How ya doin" face time ... You can say HI and introduce yourself, but know that they cannot really talk about their programs until your senior year.
7) ALSO... start shooting NCAA type strings ... 60 shot standing and 3x20 smallbore rifle to have a "resume" of scores for the coaches to see
If you are not on a team or at a school that does not have a team:
a) You can still shoot! and believe it or not still qualify for "All American" status.
b) The NRA has a set of sectionals across the country in which collegiate teams AND INDIVIDUALS can qualify for the NRA Collegiate Nationals .. check out the link:
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/coldir.asp
This year the match is at The Citadel in Charleston, SC.
Keep an eye out on the NRA website for info on who is hosting sectionals
This is just a starting point and there are some collegiate coaches that watch this board ...
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bugman551
question on college team
There are not any disadvantages to shooting for a college team.
Rifle or pistol? I'm assuming rifle.
The University of Utah has sent several team members to nationals and has produced several mens and womens national champions in air pistol and free pistol. We also produce good championship teams.
One commonality to most of them... when they're done with their studies and you ask them later, they believe that shooting in college helped them with discipline and focus which translated to their traditional studies. For example, we have a successful lawyer who stated that he would not have been able to study and then pass the bar exam without the discipline that shooting taught.
Downsides? It will take some planning on your part to fit everything into your schedule. You might sacrifice a bit of social time --if you want to shoot at a high(er) level. Not necessarily sacrifices, just things of which you could be aware.
Oz
The University of Utah has sent several team members to nationals and has produced several mens and womens national champions in air pistol and free pistol. We also produce good championship teams.
One commonality to most of them... when they're done with their studies and you ask them later, they believe that shooting in college helped them with discipline and focus which translated to their traditional studies. For example, we have a successful lawyer who stated that he would not have been able to study and then pass the bar exam without the discipline that shooting taught.
Downsides? It will take some planning on your part to fit everything into your schedule. You might sacrifice a bit of social time --if you want to shoot at a high(er) level. Not necessarily sacrifices, just things of which you could be aware.
Oz
If you are looking to shoot on an NCAA team, the closest thing to a disadvantage is the time commitment. By agreeing to be on the team, you agree to devote up to 20 hours per week for practice, workouts, and team meetings. That's likely more time on the range than in the classroom each week. On top of that, you might have required study hall hours, as many as 10 per week. That's 30 hours there, plus, say, 16 hours of class gets you to 46 hours of a week spoken for without talking about food or sleep, and hasn't added in the matches on the weekends.
As for the advantages, take a look at what I posted in this thread:
viewtopic.php?t=26902&highlight=
Without even getting in to what you might get for a scholarship, you're looking at receiving $20,000 a year in benefits just for being on the team ranging from tutors, personal trainers, and coaching to shirts, shoes, and free food.
In my opinion and experience, you'll have so much fun on the team you won't even think about any down sides.
As for the advantages, take a look at what I posted in this thread:
viewtopic.php?t=26902&highlight=
Without even getting in to what you might get for a scholarship, you're looking at receiving $20,000 a year in benefits just for being on the team ranging from tutors, personal trainers, and coaching to shirts, shoes, and free food.
In my opinion and experience, you'll have so much fun on the team you won't even think about any down sides.
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Guest
So I'm currently at a college without a shooting team. I shoot by myself at my home range as much as possible, shoot postal matches, and travel to nearby ranges for matches on the weekend. What I don't have, that a college could give me, is financial assistance for gear and travel, and camaraderie. I love shooting and I do it as much as I can, but I do wish I had the advantage of being on a college team. I'm a very independent person, but it still gets lonely shooting alone most of the time. Not to mention having a coach would be a plus- but you can find one even if you aren't on a college team.
jhmartin>> so as a college student without a team, I can still compete in the Sectionals? I was unsure of this. I will read the link you posted...do I need to get permission from my school? Thanks for the info.
-Abi
jhmartin>> so as a college student without a team, I can still compete in the Sectionals? I was unsure of this. I will read the link you posted...do I need to get permission from my school? Thanks for the info.
-Abi
Yes ... you can still compete in the intercollegiate sectionals.Anonymous wrote:jhmartin>> so as a college student without a team, I can still compete in the Sectionals? I was unsure of this. I will read the link you posted...do I need to get permission from my school? Thanks for the info.
-Abi
No, you do not need permission from the school, however if the sectional is on a date that you would need to skip school, you would most probably not get the same acceptance from your instructors that an "official" school athlete would.
Here is a link to the intercollegiate sectionals that are known:
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/calendar.asp?category=45
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Telecomtodd
- Posts: 221
- Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:15 pm
- Location: Saint Charles, MO
Abi - drop me an e-mail, tellis1@nc.rr.com
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Guest
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Guest
I apologize for taking over this discussion :-/
The info for the Rifle Sectionals...
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/rules_imag ... alInfo.pdf
...says: "Eligibility: NRA Rule 2.8 applies. Intercollegiate Sectional matches are open to individuals and teams whose
members represent any one college, junior college or university affiliated with the NRA, provided each
member is eligible for participation in intercollegiate competition under the rules of the institution."
My interpretation of this statement is that an individual can compete who represents an NRA-affiliated university... My school is not affiliated with the NRA. I also noticed that in order to go to the Championships your school must recognize "rifle" as a varsity sport- but I doubt I'd go to the Championship so not that worried about that aspect. But, I'm still unsure about how this works, how would I be verified as a college student?
-Abi
The info for the Rifle Sectionals...
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/rules_imag ... alInfo.pdf
...says: "Eligibility: NRA Rule 2.8 applies. Intercollegiate Sectional matches are open to individuals and teams whose
members represent any one college, junior college or university affiliated with the NRA, provided each
member is eligible for participation in intercollegiate competition under the rules of the institution."
My interpretation of this statement is that an individual can compete who represents an NRA-affiliated university... My school is not affiliated with the NRA. I also noticed that in order to go to the Championships your school must recognize "rifle" as a varsity sport- but I doubt I'd go to the Championship so not that worried about that aspect. But, I'm still unsure about how this works, how would I be verified as a college student?
-Abi
I have been a member of the NRA Collegiate Programs Committee for 20+ years. This is my personal opinion, not an "official" NRA position (contact Victoria Croft, vcroft@nrahq.org , 703-267-1473 for that). The interpretation of eligibility for individual shooters has always been that they had to be NRA members OR members of NRA affiliated collegiate clubs. Recently, the requirement for any kind of membership to compete in such matches has been removed. Unfortunately, some rules and some match programs have not been changed to reflect the new regs. Thus, it is my belief that there is not currently any membership requirement to compete in sectionals, or nationals. You still need to meet any eligibility requirement for your school, such as having a certain minimum GPA or be carrying a minimum course load to participate in extracurricular activities. Check with Victoria to be sure.
PaulB ... I concur. I specifically asked this question to Tori this summer at the JR Team Nationals in ABQ and and that was her response as well .... This matches the requirements for the "Junior" sectionals.PaulB wrote: Recently, the requirement for any kind of membership to compete in such matches has been removed. .... Thus, it is my belief that there is not currently any membership requirement to compete in sectionals, or nationals.
Here is the response that I received from her in May:
The university or college does not have to be affiliated for independent shooters to shoot the sectional; in fact the school does not have to be affiliated for a “team” to shoot, but it would be nice to have the affiliation for the sake of the team.
'Fury,
So long as you have a modest portfolio of scores over the half and full course most colleges with active teams would have a place for you on their team. The bottom line is that while some of the more popular sports will have to cut athletes many/most shooting teams are dying for talent so getting onto a collegiate shooting team is relatively easy.
Now, quality varies widely. Some colleges are listed as having shooting programs but have no apparent record of competing. If you are looking for programs I would start with the list of colleges that had teams or at least several shooters in the collegiate sectionals from the last few years. You will also notice that quality of the programs varies widely but consistent entry in the sectionals at least shows an active competitive program. (As opposed to a recreational program where shooting is an excuse to gather and socialize with little emphasis placed on performance.)
Following locating a few candidate schools I would most sincerely recommend visiting not only the campus but also arranging a meeting with the coach(es) or instructor(s) and visiting the range facilities. DO NOT listen to what they say over the phone, go and look for yourself. It is amazing what you can learn in just a short 15 minute site visit. Bottom line you are looking for a program where you feel you can grow as a competitive shooter which is more than just a place to shoot.
Cheers,
'Dude
So long as you have a modest portfolio of scores over the half and full course most colleges with active teams would have a place for you on their team. The bottom line is that while some of the more popular sports will have to cut athletes many/most shooting teams are dying for talent so getting onto a collegiate shooting team is relatively easy.
Now, quality varies widely. Some colleges are listed as having shooting programs but have no apparent record of competing. If you are looking for programs I would start with the list of colleges that had teams or at least several shooters in the collegiate sectionals from the last few years. You will also notice that quality of the programs varies widely but consistent entry in the sectionals at least shows an active competitive program. (As opposed to a recreational program where shooting is an excuse to gather and socialize with little emphasis placed on performance.)
Following locating a few candidate schools I would most sincerely recommend visiting not only the campus but also arranging a meeting with the coach(es) or instructor(s) and visiting the range facilities. DO NOT listen to what they say over the phone, go and look for yourself. It is amazing what you can learn in just a short 15 minute site visit. Bottom line you are looking for a program where you feel you can grow as a competitive shooter which is more than just a place to shoot.
Cheers,
'Dude
Fury,
I remember when I was your age...I'm 28 now. I still remember when my dad taught me how to shoot: I was about 4 or 5 and he taught me with my uncle's Ruger Mk II. I've been shooting ever since. Over the years, I've had the opportunity to compete in just about every shooting discipline: Bullseye Pistol, IPSC, Steel Challenge, HP Rifle, Benchrest, Silhouette, and SB Rifle (ais still my first love).
When I was your age, I was fairly smart. I graduated in the top 10 of my class, had the best test scores of anyone in my class, and I had my choice of colleges. When I graduated high school, I knew two things:
1. I wanted to become a politician (Yes, I wanted to be a politician)
2. My family couldn't afford to send me to college
In my home state of Louisiana, colleges were cheap and scholarships for fairly smart kids like me were plentiful. I earned a scholarship to a regional state school in northern Louisiana where I did well and ultimately graduated a year and a half early with a pair of degrees. The school I chose had an excellent program for what I chose to study and I had a great time. I learned, I had fun, I worked, and made a lot of great friends I still see regularly.
Since college, I've gone on to do very well in the business world. Because I did well in college, I was able to go to some excellent grad schools, both in Louisiana and where I am now in the Mid-Atlantic. I own my own business now and set my own hours.
Fury, I tell you all of this with specific purpose and reason. Before you think about college, you should really think about what you want to do with the rest of your life. Do you want to be a Doctor? Lawyer? Engineer? Architect? If you haven't already, it's time to sit down with the high school counselor and think about your options. You also need to talk to your parents and really contemplate how you plan on paying for this collegiate endeavor. Above all else, you need to decide if College is really right for you. Only YOU can answer that question.
If you're going to go to college, you need to make the most of the experience. You need to be considering what you want to do with the rest of your life. As I'm sure you've found out by now, shooting is an expensive, time-consuming activity. To do it well, it needs an extensive time and financial commitment. Sooner rather than later, it's going to be both YOUR time and finances committing to the sport.
If you honestly see yourself involved with competitive shooting for the long term, then plan accordingly. You're always going to have the opportunity to shoot in the NRA circuit, regardless of your collegiate status. You'll also have the opportunity to do USAS open events. With the NRA, you can go as far as you like in as many events as you like-that's how I competed in college. I can still take shooting as far as I want.
Right now, to shoot for a formal college team is to place yourself in a unnecessarily hard position during on what should be some of the happiest days of your life. You're going to be subject to the rules and regulations of the NCAA, as well as the financial and political dictates of the university you attend. As I've previously stated, shooting is an expensive sport and money is particularly scarce; politically, shooting sports in college have no friends.
I think your best bet is to read the NRA rule books VERY CAREFULLY. Section 2 is usually the section for eligibility of competitors. Learn the rules and don't be afraid to talk to the NRA staff. Try to think of it not in terms of competiting this or next year, but in five or six years and for the rest of your life.
Wishing you all the best,
Bill
I remember when I was your age...I'm 28 now. I still remember when my dad taught me how to shoot: I was about 4 or 5 and he taught me with my uncle's Ruger Mk II. I've been shooting ever since. Over the years, I've had the opportunity to compete in just about every shooting discipline: Bullseye Pistol, IPSC, Steel Challenge, HP Rifle, Benchrest, Silhouette, and SB Rifle (ais still my first love).
When I was your age, I was fairly smart. I graduated in the top 10 of my class, had the best test scores of anyone in my class, and I had my choice of colleges. When I graduated high school, I knew two things:
1. I wanted to become a politician (Yes, I wanted to be a politician)
2. My family couldn't afford to send me to college
In my home state of Louisiana, colleges were cheap and scholarships for fairly smart kids like me were plentiful. I earned a scholarship to a regional state school in northern Louisiana where I did well and ultimately graduated a year and a half early with a pair of degrees. The school I chose had an excellent program for what I chose to study and I had a great time. I learned, I had fun, I worked, and made a lot of great friends I still see regularly.
Since college, I've gone on to do very well in the business world. Because I did well in college, I was able to go to some excellent grad schools, both in Louisiana and where I am now in the Mid-Atlantic. I own my own business now and set my own hours.
Fury, I tell you all of this with specific purpose and reason. Before you think about college, you should really think about what you want to do with the rest of your life. Do you want to be a Doctor? Lawyer? Engineer? Architect? If you haven't already, it's time to sit down with the high school counselor and think about your options. You also need to talk to your parents and really contemplate how you plan on paying for this collegiate endeavor. Above all else, you need to decide if College is really right for you. Only YOU can answer that question.
If you're going to go to college, you need to make the most of the experience. You need to be considering what you want to do with the rest of your life. As I'm sure you've found out by now, shooting is an expensive, time-consuming activity. To do it well, it needs an extensive time and financial commitment. Sooner rather than later, it's going to be both YOUR time and finances committing to the sport.
If you honestly see yourself involved with competitive shooting for the long term, then plan accordingly. You're always going to have the opportunity to shoot in the NRA circuit, regardless of your collegiate status. You'll also have the opportunity to do USAS open events. With the NRA, you can go as far as you like in as many events as you like-that's how I competed in college. I can still take shooting as far as I want.
Right now, to shoot for a formal college team is to place yourself in a unnecessarily hard position during on what should be some of the happiest days of your life. You're going to be subject to the rules and regulations of the NCAA, as well as the financial and political dictates of the university you attend. As I've previously stated, shooting is an expensive sport and money is particularly scarce; politically, shooting sports in college have no friends.
I think your best bet is to read the NRA rule books VERY CAREFULLY. Section 2 is usually the section for eligibility of competitors. Learn the rules and don't be afraid to talk to the NRA staff. Try to think of it not in terms of competiting this or next year, but in five or six years and for the rest of your life.
Wishing you all the best,
Bill
Fury
Weilers brings up many very valid points. I will distill some of his points:
Consider that very few people make a living as a shooter. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are members of the USAMU and I guess there are some shotgun disciplines where you can make a living at it. If you want to join the Army and put in for the AMU that is a fine goal, not only are the AMU shooter some of the best this country (USA) has to offer I don't think I ever met a member from the AMU who was not kind, polite and helpful. However, you will be joining the Army first and just because you want to go to the AMU does not mean that is where you will go. If you go that route, at the very least you would want to talk with the commander of the AMU before you go into the Army.
Bottom line, your professional development (career training if you like) should come first. If you find a college that you love and they have a sound shooting program all the better. Attending a school where you don't fit in just because they have a shooting program is a recipe for disaster or at least a miserable 4 years.
If you know what you want to major in, that is great, If not, talking with parents, guidance counselors and also admission counselors at college and university is a good resource, however: Assume you are 16 or so, anyone who tells you that you have all the info necessary to make the decision for what you are going to do for the next 50 years of your life is putting you on. While I do not endorse changing majors every semester a change in majors is not the end of the world. Also, entering college as an undeclared major is OK too that is why they have freshman survey courses.
Everyone is different and there is no "one size fits all" solution
Just my 2 cents
'Dude
Weilers brings up many very valid points. I will distill some of his points:
Consider that very few people make a living as a shooter. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are members of the USAMU and I guess there are some shotgun disciplines where you can make a living at it. If you want to join the Army and put in for the AMU that is a fine goal, not only are the AMU shooter some of the best this country (USA) has to offer I don't think I ever met a member from the AMU who was not kind, polite and helpful. However, you will be joining the Army first and just because you want to go to the AMU does not mean that is where you will go. If you go that route, at the very least you would want to talk with the commander of the AMU before you go into the Army.
Bottom line, your professional development (career training if you like) should come first. If you find a college that you love and they have a sound shooting program all the better. Attending a school where you don't fit in just because they have a shooting program is a recipe for disaster or at least a miserable 4 years.
If you know what you want to major in, that is great, If not, talking with parents, guidance counselors and also admission counselors at college and university is a good resource, however: Assume you are 16 or so, anyone who tells you that you have all the info necessary to make the decision for what you are going to do for the next 50 years of your life is putting you on. While I do not endorse changing majors every semester a change in majors is not the end of the world. Also, entering college as an undeclared major is OK too that is why they have freshman survey courses.
Everyone is different and there is no "one size fits all" solution
Just my 2 cents
'Dude
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mikeschroeder
- Posts: 488
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:56 am
- Location: Kansas
Hi, my understanding is the same as the dude I quoted. Even Doug Koenig, NRA Bianchi Cup champion is supposed to make more money from the family gun shop than from shooting. Shotgun is VERY lucrative, but also very competitive. I occasionally help out with Kansas Trap Association matches and it's nothing to see 5-10 250K motor homes there.justadude wrote:Fury
Weilers brings up many very valid points. I will distill some of his points:
Consider that very few people make a living as a shooter. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are members of the USAMU and I guess there are some shotgun disciplines where you can make a living at it. ...
'Dude
Later
Mike
Wichita KS
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silentfury214
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:07 am
- Location: Tennessee
Gunsmithing is primarily considered a trade, not necessarily a collegiate discipline. This means either a Post HS certificate or, in some cases, a 2-Year associates degree in a Community/Technical College. To be more specific, it's what one might consider an interdisciplinary program: a variety of different disciplines such as: welding, machinery, metallurgy, woodworking, etc. A few courses will most likely be gunsmith-specific, but not many.
Know that Community/Technical Colleges typically DO NOT offer competitive sports of any kind. Colleges of this type almost exclusively don't offer housing, seven-day meal plans, or other boarding support for their students. You probably won't get much assistance with financial aid, either. Also know that public Community and Technical Colleges do charge out-of-state fees for non-residents.
A final consideration (there are plenty) to consider: this one is most practical. As of now, if you're competing on campus (any campus), you've most likely done so with an airgun, most likely under the auspices of the CMP and/or the JROTC program, in a very controlled setting. Airguns are not considered firearms and you are considered a minor. The American college system assumes you are to be of the age of majority: 18 or older.
Gun laws tend to be very broad in terms of excluding firearms on school grounds, regardless of purpose. You're also going to enter a gray area in between the ages of 18 and 21 regarding your ability to possess handguns.
Now, you have some more information to make an informed decision. The NRA keeps a wealth of information on education and gunsmithing programs. You can still compete within the NRA: just read Shooting Sports USA to for match notices. I included some contact information below.
Best of luck to you,
Bill
http://www.nragunsmithing.com/Default.html
http://www.nrapublications.org/ssusa/index.html
Know that Community/Technical Colleges typically DO NOT offer competitive sports of any kind. Colleges of this type almost exclusively don't offer housing, seven-day meal plans, or other boarding support for their students. You probably won't get much assistance with financial aid, either. Also know that public Community and Technical Colleges do charge out-of-state fees for non-residents.
A final consideration (there are plenty) to consider: this one is most practical. As of now, if you're competing on campus (any campus), you've most likely done so with an airgun, most likely under the auspices of the CMP and/or the JROTC program, in a very controlled setting. Airguns are not considered firearms and you are considered a minor. The American college system assumes you are to be of the age of majority: 18 or older.
Gun laws tend to be very broad in terms of excluding firearms on school grounds, regardless of purpose. You're also going to enter a gray area in between the ages of 18 and 21 regarding your ability to possess handguns.
Now, you have some more information to make an informed decision. The NRA keeps a wealth of information on education and gunsmithing programs. You can still compete within the NRA: just read Shooting Sports USA to for match notices. I included some contact information below.
Best of luck to you,
Bill
http://www.nragunsmithing.com/Default.html
http://www.nrapublications.org/ssusa/index.html