TargetTalk

During a regional competition, Standard pistol event, the referee made a competitor remove his spare magazine from the shooting bench. The magazine was not loaded.
I have been searching the ISSF rules to find out on which argument the referee had based his decision, but couldn’t find any.
Has any one any idea what ISSF rule can be invoked to make the competitor remove his spare clip?
Thank you.
Guy

6.2.1
ISSF Rules state only specific safety requirements which are required by the ISSF for use in ISSF supervised Competitions / Championships. Necessary and special safety regulations for ranges differ from country to country. For this reason no details are stated within these Rules. The safety of a shooting range depends to a large extent on local conditions, so additional safety rules may be established by the Organizing Committee. The Organizing Committee must know the principles of range safety and take the necessary steps to apply them. The Organizing
Committee bears the responsibility for safety. Juries, Range officials, team officials and shooters must be advised of any special regulations.

Yes, safety "issue", whilst the range officer is clearing each position before going forward to the targets, they are looking for an empty mag and chamber, potentially a full second magazine could be elsewhere on the bench and overlooked. Now that safety failure would fall on the R/O, in their defense some stations have large cases/tripods/scopes all over the place, one mag keeps it simple.

Jimmy33 wrote:....potentially a full second magazine could be elsewhere on the bench and overlooked.

That of course would be its own breach of the first part of rule 8.6.4.2.3

In all 25 m events, only one (1) magazine or pistol may be loaded with not more than five (5) cartridges on the command "LOAD".

Jimmy33 wrote:....one mag keeps it simple.

Yes it does, but it can also be detrimental to the shooters. When I was competing I always liked to keep a spare empty magazine on the bench. In the (unlikely) event of dropping a magazine when picking it up to charge it I could simply pick up the spare. If it's a local safety rule then that's fine, but I prefer to see efficient range officer checking.

I like to keep the minimum amount of gear on the bench when I shoot, so my bag and gun case are left on the ground and out of the way, but I do like to keep a second empty mag on the bench just in case of malfunction etc. I don't think it is a breach of the rules.

David - what rule, if any would prohibit a competitor from keeping a spare and fully loaded magazine in his\her pocket? Would bringing this magazine into use in the event of malfunction be permissible??

orionshooter wrote:David - what rule, if any would prohibit a competitor from keeping a spare and fully loaded magazine in his\her pocket? Would bringing this magazine into use in the event of malfunction be permissible??

8.6.4.2.3.1 If a shooter loads his pistol with more than a total of five (5)
cartridges or he loads more than one (1) magazine on any
command “LOAD” he must be penalized by the deduction of two
(2) points, for each additional cartridge, from his competition score
in that same series.

The rule as written doesn't seem to prohibit carrying an unoaded magazine in a pocket though.

Anonymous wrote:The rule as written doesn't seem to prohibit carrying an unoaded magazine in a pocket though.

You wouldn't want to put your hand in your pocket.

Rule 6.2.2.7.5
Any shooter who touches a gun or magazine, except to unload, after the command "STOP" has been given during an elimination or qualification, relay stage or series, without the permission of the Range Officer, may be disqualified.

Anonymous wrote:The rule as written doesn't seem to prohibit carrying an unoaded magazine in a pocket though.

That would be one way of getting all the fluff, crumbs and whatever out of your pocket

guest22 wrote:During a regional competition, Standard pistol event, the referee made a competitor remove his spare magazine from the shooting bench. The magazine was not loaded.
I have been searching the ISSF rules to find out on which argument the referee had based his decision, but couldn’t find any.
Has any one any idea what ISSF rule can be invoked to make the competitor remove his spare clip?
Thank you.
Guy

Without any idea of where you are shooting, it is a bit hard to make a comment that would apply in your situation.
However, at some of our matches one of the officials has tried to make competitors remove extra magazines from the table (unloaded), in the name of 'safety'. When questioned, it turns it that it is his preference so that it is easier and faster to clear the line. It was pointed out that this was not a violation of the range safety rules, and clearly not a violation of ISSF rules. So, I kept my extra on the table.
When I fumble and drop a magazine during loading, I want that second one right there, not in a bag.

The 'incident' happened on a regional match in Belgium.

I think David Levins comment 'additional safety rules may be established by the Organizing Committee' says it all. Although participants will welcome information on special rules before the match.
Also, 1 minute before the competition is not the best moment to start an argument with a referee.

Thanks for your comments.

Guy

Although I generally agree that rules can get out of hand (e.g., having the range office check everyone's gun before it is boxed and put away), I don't see what benefit there can be to keeping your spare magazine on the bench versus under the bench or elsewhere. If you have a malfunction that requires using a different magazine it can't be that difficult to reach over to your pistol case and retrieve your spare. Although I shoot at a limited number of ranges, at all of them I can either put my closed case (containing spare magazine) on the bench, or I place it under the bench. If I had to put all of my things more than a dozen steps away I might grumble a bit, but that has never been the case.

My experience has been that the only space available is on the bench. Gun boxes and cases are several steps back by the chair, and due to range congestion they are closed. In the one minute load, if I drop a magazine, I don't want to use up time stepping back, opening, finding and getting back to the bench. It would be a complete disruption of my loading sequence.

Rule here seems to be all mags you have should be on the bench.

JamesH wrote:Rule here seems to be all mags you have should be on the bench.

what club is that?

Seems to apply in South Australia, not really noticed if its applied consistently.

JamesH wrote:Seems to apply in South Australia, not really noticed if its applied consistently.

Not part of general competition (and I should know :) ), but could be individual club bye-laws.

I can understand why some clubs would want the RO to inspect all magazines (on bench, or not) before the shooter removes the pistol from the firing line.