air rifle charge

[me]

Just a question on pcp air rifles. Can you charge a cylinder with oxegen from a torch set. It should be pure and dry.

[Richard H]

No you should never use pure oxygen, ist flammable, explosive and reactive.
Air only contains approx 20% oxygen.

You can use Nitrogen as the is what makes up the remaining 80% and is inert.

[SRichieR]

To answer the question: NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT! NEVER! TREMENDOUS RISK OF EXPLOSION.

Pure oxygen, under pressure, when exposed to oil or other flammable material will spontaneously combust.

Nitrogen will work and is readily available from welding supply. Most tanks will require a regulator and special fittings to adapt to the gun. The properties of nitrogen arguably might be better than air. And, I've seen it used on a regular basis.

[justadude]

To echo the other responses, NEVER charge an airgun or anything else not specifically intended AND cleaned for use with pure oxygen with pure oxygen or oxygen enriched air.

Many things that we do not normally consider flammable will burn vigorously in the presence of pure oxygen, this includes some metals. "Rubbers" and oils can become explosive in the presence of pure oxygen. When you ramp up the pressures, as you have in a PCP airgun, the hazards become worse.

Pure Oxygen and PCP Airgun.... NO NO NO!!!

As noted, if you want to use nitrogen, that should be fine although I hear that some manufacturers don't recommend it. Probably because it has not been thoroughly tested but that is speculation. At least nitrogen is not inherently life threatening.

'Dude

[Me]

OK I agree, but is ther enough heat generated with the lead pellets going throught the barrel to create that much of a hazard?? Fire needs Heat, Fuel, and Oxygen. Where would the fuel be for an explosion? Is there enough oil in the gun for this? If you aren't suppose to use anything combustible in an air gun for cleaning where is the fuel?? Oxygen is a supporter of fire, right??

[GCSInc]

Oxygen and any petroleum based product can spontaneously combust. You might know this as an explosion, or simply a blinding flash of light, but in any case, it's a real bad idea. Compressed breathable air is what your pcp gun is designed to run on. Nitrogen is the way to go if you're looking for industrial quantities of bottled gas. Here are some photos of the Nitrogen Fill Station we have at The Ole Mill Range in Griffin GA. You could also go with a compressor, but that's usually expensive unless you're filling a lot of cylinders or have a very large club or range.

Roy McClain
(678) 772-8185 cell
www.OleMillRange.org

[peterz]

...but is there enough heat generated with the lead pellets going throught the barrel to create that much of a hazard?? Fire needs Heat, Fuel, and Oxygen. Where would the fuel be for an explosion? Is there enough oil in the gun for this? If you aren't suppose to use anything combustible in an air gun for cleaning where is the fuel??

The problem is not with the pure oxygen supporting a fire or with there being enough heat from the pellet traversing the barrel to cause ignition. It is that oxygen penetrates organic compounds such as o-ring seals or any kind of lubricants, and can spontaneously initiate very violent reactions. Any system that uses pure oxygen is required to be very carefully designed so that such compounds are absent. Indeed, the threads of high pressure oxygen tanks are unique to that use in order to make it complicated to make a mistake.

Please don't try using oxygen in an air gun. The chances are you won't get hurt, sure, but the risk is still high. If you want to see what a pure-oxygen-supported fire looks like, call up the video of the Apollo 1 fire on the launch pad.

[Richard H]

OK I agree, but is ther enough heat generated with the lead pellets going throught the barrel to create that much of a hazard?? Fire needs Heat, Fuel, and Oxygen. Where would the fuel be for an explosion? Is there enough oil in the gun for this? If you aren't suppose to use anything combustible in an air gun for cleaning where is the fuel?? Oxygen is a supporter of fire, right??

I'm not saying this to be mean but if you're asking these questions you should not be in the control of pure oxygen. You sir really need to be educated on the compounds that you have access to, I'm afraid you sound like an accident waiting to happen.

I suggest you contact your gas supplier I'm sure they will be more than happy to teach you the proper precautions and uses of pure oxygen.

[justadude]

Go back to the part where I mentioned things that don't normally burn will, with great vigor. You do not even need a "normal" ignition source. Pure oxygen flowing over a burr inside a tube or around a sharp corner can be enough to start a fire. Also, two pieces of metal striking one another can be enough to touch it off.

There is a whole industry (albeit modest in size) that deals with systems that use pure oxygen. Special metals, special cleaning procedures, special non-sparking tools, special training. Pure oxygen is great stuff but commands significant respect.

By now you have the idea, don't use oxygen to charge your airgun.

'Dude

[me]

Thank you all for your in puts. I never intended to use oxegen in the air rifle. Just to post a question. Richard H. if you didnt say it to be mean, why say it at all??? Thats how you drive someone away from good conversation. This might topix could help alot of shooters who might not other wise not know. By the way Iam a 23 year retired fireman!

[Richard H]

I'd rather you'd be slightly offended then end up in a burn ward or dead. I investigate workplace accidents for a living and I've seen what people do to themselves due to lack of training and knowledge about what they are doing or handling.

[Bowman26]

I have to agree with Richard. I was going to post the same sort of reply because it made me wonder why someone without knowledge of compressed gas especially Oxygen would not know this already. It is basic welding class info that you learn before you ever crack a valve on a torch.

No one is dogging you just trying to keep you safe and let you know that you need to get up to date with things. You don't want ignorance of the facts to kill you do you? No one said you are stupid for asking.

Back in college I took a welding class and the 1st thing was the safety test. 70 questions IIRC and for each one you missed you had to write an entire page about that question before you would be allowed to touch anything. It is that important. Things go BOOM if you don't know what you are doing.

Be safe.

Bo

[Guest]

A compressed air gun cylinder at 200 BAR is around 2900 PSI!!!

IMHO, that alone can be dangerous if not properly handled.

This is a forum about guns. Guns demand respect for safety first and foremost. Read and follow the instructions in your manual(s). Think before you act.

Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction
Keep the gun unloaded with the action open until you are ready to shoot
Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot

[SRichieR]

We have a saying here in the south that I think is appropriate here in this thread. The saying is used just before doing some foolish and frequently chemically (alcohol) induced action. It's known as "famous last words".

Before filling an airgun with compressed oxygen, please yell loudly - "HEY YA'LL, WATCH THIS". This gives bystanders a chance to duck and call 911 because whatever is coming next is gonna be bad and likely require a trip to the hospital and/or morgue.

Seriously though, read and understand the precautions necessary for materials and machinery you are about to use.

[Hope this helps]

While oxygen itself is not flammable it is a very dangerous chemical
because it can react with any fuel in its presence.
When high pressure oxygen is used extreme care must be taken so that it
does not come in contact with any fuels or it will cause an explosion.

[frog5215]

I'm going to swim against the tide:

Go ahead. Have a friend take video so he can post it on youtube.

[peterz]

It's been done. Does nobody else remember George Goble's charcoal grill experiments?

gascharcoalgrill.net/553/lighting-a-charcoal-grill-with-liquid-oxygen/

http://baetzler.de/humor/litegrill.html

All of which explains why you don't want to get pure oxygen near the seals in your air gun.

[Dr. Jim]

Way back when I was an undergrad (40+ years ago) I worked in a steel mill, on the furnace. I periodically had to use an "oxygen lance" - an iron pipe 10 foot long to start out and 500-750 psi oxygen. To remove chunks of slag, you'd stick the pipe end into the furnace get it to red heat and turn on the oxy - the result is a high pressure flame 3- 6 ft long and hot enough to burn the slag off the firebrick. Given heat and high pressure oxygen, you can make almost anything burn.

Dr Jim

[robf]

the effects of filling a gun with oxegen can be found here.





The end result of a Rapid 7 pre-charged air rifle being filled with pure oxygen and then fired - not pretty. The owner ended up in intensive care, and is lucky to be alive.

[mapletune]

i applaud the above poster. thanks for bringing sources that will likely persuade people otherwise! =D