TargetTalk

I'm curious as to what the tightest group ever achieved in Olympic Air Gun (Rifle and Pistol) events turns out to be. I'm specifically interested in free-standing best center-to-center data for groups of 5 or 10 shots and at various ranges from 10m up to 50m, if available.

CTC group data is how most of the shooters I know keep track of their shooting performance. All I've been able to find so far is point totals and I have not been able to translate those numbers into CTC group data.

I would appreciate any guidance offered on this.

Roy

This type of analysis is not usually generated, let alone retained for future reference.

It is possible to generate group size from EST data, but I cannot remember anybody doing so.
In the final wash, it's the score that counts, not the group size - and the two do not directly correlate.

They only shoot one shot per target in Air.

I presume he is asking about 10 shot series or the overall 40/60 shots

I think the best way to 'rank' groups is to compare the finals. This is the only decimal score that is diplayed after a Olympic style match.

Taking this you will be, both for Airrifle as for Smallbore Rifle at about 106,3 out of the possible 109,0. Don't forget there can be even a 9 in this total!

Yes, the Olympics are done by score, not grouping, and the grouping data is not specifically retained.

In addition, as most top-level events are shot on electronics, it would be a calculated goruping as each shot would be on a different bit of rubber, therefore you have to include the error margins of the electronic equipment, which you won't know for historic results, even if you got the grouping data.

You may be able to extrapolate some data from the decimal scores provided by the finals, but that's it really.

You can currently see the groups fired in the ISSF WC finals from the results pages on ISSF website.

From time to time I get to shoot on the Sius Ascor targets which give x and y coordinates for each strike to 0.01mm. From these I can plot a picture of each group and can calculate a strike radius. I assume that based on a ten ring of 10.4 mm and a bullet diameter of 5.6mm, an 8mm strike radius scores 10.0. I have done some sums that show that each 0.1 on score equates to 1.25mm closer in.

So a high decimal score certainly relates to a low nett dispersion from the target centre, but groups aren't always centred.

Non-decimal score gives a lot of spread. a 9.9 at 8.01mm radius and a 9.0 at 15.99mm radius both score 9 but will have a very different effects on the group size.

RoryW wrote:You can currently see the groups fired in the ISSF WC finals from the results pages on ISSF website.

From time to time I get to shoot on the Sius Ascor targets which give x and y coordinates for each strike to 0.01mm. From these I can plot a picture of each group and can calculate a strike radius. I assume that based on a ten ring of 10.4 mm and a bullet diameter of 5.6mm, an 8mm strike radius scores 10.0. I have done some sums that show that each 0.1 on score equates to 1.25mm closer in.

So a high decimal score certainly relates to a low nett dispersion from the target centre, but groups aren't always centred.

Non-decimal score gives a lot of spread. a 9.9 at 8.01mm radius and a 9.0 at 15.99mm radius both score 9 but will have a very different effects on the group size.

0.8mm?

RoryW wrote:From time to time I get to shoot on the Sius Ascor targets which give x and y coordinates for each strike to 0.01mm. From these I can plot a picture of each group and can calculate a strike radius. I assume that based on a ten ring of 10.4 mm and a bullet diameter of 5.6mm, an 8mm strike radius scores 10.0. I have done some sums that show that each 0.1 on score equates to 1.25mm closer in.

As I think Guest11 was suggesting, for 50m Rifle (and 10m Air Pistol) the difference between the limits for each 0.1 of score is 0.8mm.

Shot centre up to 0.8mm from centre of target = 10.9
Shot centre up to 1.6mm from centre of target = 10.8
Shot centre up to 2.4mm from centre of target = 10.7
etc

Yes, my mistake, of course each 0.1 of score is 0.8mm further out.

RoryW

Check out Gagan Narang's 2nd string at the World Championships =) pretty impressive is an understatement.

http://tinyurl.com/23wymxa

yeah a tight group but still "just" a 100 score. Pretty common at that level for air rifle.

Now if that had been a finals series..umm maybe a 106 or 107.