TargetTalk

Sub-6 is obvious: equally space between bottom of target and gap in your sights.

Low sub-6, which of course is lower than sub-6, I really don't get. How do you get the same sight picture every time when the gap from the bottom of the black target to the top of the front sight is way bigger? To me it seems like there's no way to make sure the sight picture is the same every time (as with the regular sub-6) because of this.

Help me understand if possible ;o)

The bullseye is just a distraction. When you shoot low sub-six, it is almost like doing a blank target drill.

The sight picture is the same because the eye naturally wants to hold in the middle of the open space. Plus, there is no need to snatch the trigger because there is no exact point that your conscious vision sees and tries to grab.

Low sub 6 is just an area hold. The space between the front sight and the bull can and will vary depending on the person and light conditions and even pistol they are using. You will tend to hold in the same spot and using a low sub-six can help one to focus on JUST the front sight.

If you have ever took a target and turned it around and shot 20 shots you will start to shoot a group without having a point of reference to aim at. You will surprise yourself on how small of a group you can shot.

Chris wrote:Low sub 6 is just an area hold. The space between the front sight and the bull can and will vary depending on the person and light conditions and even pistol they are using. You will tend to hold in the same spot and using a low sub-six can help one to focus on JUST the front sight.

If you have ever took a target and turned it around and shot 20 shots you will start to shoot a group without having a point of reference to aim at. You will surprise yourself on how small of a group you can shot.

I understand your point! Still one would need some fixed area/point if 10s should be achieved. Aiming 2 or 2.5 cm under the black target would give 2 different outcomes, right.

That is my point. How do you decide if your aim is 2 or 2.5 under every time you take a shot?

fwerkbau wrote:I understand your point! Still one would need some fixed area/point if 10s should be achieved. Aiming 2 or 2.5 cm under the black target would give 2 different outcomes, right.

That is my point. How do you decide if your aim is 2 or 2.5 under every time you take a shot?

Remarkably, no. Try it for a while and you'll see how it works. Trying to aim at a spot is pretty much impossible and the "searching" can lead to worse results rather than better. If you aim at an area below the black and focus on just the front sight ignoring the target, your subconscious knows what to do. The target is just a distraction. Have faith in your hold and convince yourself that the target does not exist.

Will try it out tomorrow NOT paying attention to the score. Main focus will be low sub-6 and front sight only. Gonna be quite fun.

I know at one time Jason Turner shot a very-low-sub 6.

Give it a try. This means for more than one time at the range. If I were you I would try it for a month provided you are shooting at least 3 times a week. The longer the better.

The US three gun record was shot using center hold thirty plus years ago. The advantage of center hold once the shooter has developed the discipline to really focus on the front sight is that there is never any doubt about where the center of the area hold should be. Also the shooter recieves a strong signal when the focus on the front sight changes as the bull turns from grey fuzzy to sharp black and gives a clear warning to abort the shot.Once you become convinced that the target will not move there is no longer any reason to be looking at it , the pistol and the sights do move and that is where the attention and eye focus must be maintained. But ,Bottom line is shoot what works for you. Good Shooting Bill Horton

fwerkbau wrote:That is my point. How do you decide if your aim is 2 or 2.5 under every time you take a shot?

Doesn't matter, they're both tens.

JamesH wrote:

fwerkbau wrote:That is my point. How do you decide if your aim is 2 or 2.5 under every time you take a shot?

Doesn't matter, they're both tens.

That's great! Who said that shooting was difficult ;o)

I have shot sub 6 for years...it just depends on the sight picture that you like seeing. With a center hold, I never felt like I could get good definition of exactly where the front sight was on the black center. In addition, I felt like my movement did not show up as bad when not aiming directly at the black. There is no right or wrong way and I would adopt what is most comfortable for you.

B wrote:I have shot sub 6 for years...it just depends on the sight picture that you like seeing. With a center hold, I never felt like I could get good definition of exactly where the front sight was on the black center. In addition, I felt like my movement did not show up as bad when not aiming directly at the black. There is no right or wrong way and I would adopt what is most comfortable for you.

I tried both myself - sub-6 being the best. At one point I aimed in the left white area under the bull. Didn't really care about the black, just trying to aim at the same spot each time. Result was the tightest group I shot so far. So for me it seems like sub-6/low sub-6 is the way to go.

2650 Plus wrote:The US three gun record was shot using center hold thirty plus years ago. The advantage of center hold once the shooter has developed the discipline to really focus on the front sight is that there is never any doubt about where the center of the area hold should be. Also the shooter recieves a strong signal when the focus on the front sight changes as the bull turns from grey fuzzy to sharp black and gives a clear warning to abort the shot.Once you become convinced that the target will not move there is no longer any reason to be looking at it , the pistol and the sights do move and that is where the attention and eye focus must be maintained. But ,Bottom line is shoot what works for you. Good Shooting Bill Horton

The problem I've always had with center hold is that the black of the sight "bleeds" into the target and at best I can then only hit the black, but almost never the center area of it. I don't know if that's something wrong with my eyesight or if I'm doing something wrong? Same with true 6 o'clock -- the top of the front sight will bleed or sort of smear into the black as it wobbles up and down just into and out of the black. I've placed a fine soapstone (basically chalk) line across my front sight to ensure I was focused on it. Sub-6 or sub-sub-6 eliminates the problem -- that allows the sights to be completely distinct from the black.

Do you notice that "bleeding" or "smearing" happening or should I make an appointment with the optomitrist? ;)

To hold on the black or on the white will involve this: A lot of the quality of the sight picture depends on lighting balance on the sight and target, whether indoors or out, notch width, eyesight, etc. There is an ideal combination for each of us. I like to see the front sight good enough to read a book printed on it. At 60 that is not so easy anymore.

I agree with Jack. I thought that a center hold was the only way to go when I was younger because I had no problem picking out the front sight with my young eyes even against the black bull. Now at 54 I find that I do a lot better with a sub six as there are only some days and some ranges where I can get a clearly defined front sight picture against the black. It was easier to just train myself to use the sub six hold all the time. Isabel

I've shot center hold, six, and sub-six.

Center hold works great, but you need to have a lot of light around the sights. It helps to paint the front sight, too. Fluorescent orange works 4.0.

Sub-six works better for me than six. You consciously focus on the sights...and the subconscious works on positioning them in relation to the black. It works surprisingly well.

I have found for me to shoot a center hold the front sight needs to be the same width as the target or larger. This way you do not loose the front sight in some lighting conditions. Like Bill said you have to abort the shot once you see a clear black target and start over.

The hard part I have found for me with a center hold is I try and make it perfect since you have a referance point directly in the background of the front sigth. After trying for several months I went back to sub-6 and my groups got small again. I really wanted to shoot COM.

Tried low sub-six yesterday as an experiment. Shot 2 series of 30 (3x10) with these results:

First round of 30 shots: 11 10s, several 9s and a few 8s
Second round of 30 shots: 12 10s, several 9s, a few 8s and a 7.

Tight groups with a few "flyers".

Very satisfied since this is my very first try using low sub-six. I will stick to this for a couple of months and hopefully progress.