From the Wall Street Journal
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 13542.html
Just to make everyone feel safer about flying with guns
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
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Isabel1130
- Posts: 1364
- Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:19 pm
- Location: Wyoming
Just another reason to get with your friends and drive to matches. The hassles of flying are already so great that I would have to be going at least 1500 miles and going by myself to even consider it. Also if you are going to fly with your guns insure them with a seperate rider on your home owners or renters policy. Isabel
Why doesn't this surprise me?
This is one of the very few advantages of the UK being so paranoid about firearms. Put the words "airport", "firearm" and "stolen" into one sentence and things happen very quickly!
Also helps if you hold individuals accountable instead of just the company as a whole.
I recall someone telling me about him returning from an international match.
When he got to baggage reclaim in the UK, his rifle case didn't come out.
Went up to the airline rep, who was the usual underpaid, uninterested grunt, and who shoved a standard form for lost baggage at him (even after being told it was a firearm that was lost).
After ascertaining that "there was nothing more that she could do" than process the form, he asked for her full name, and the name of her manager.
"Why?" She asked.
"Well, under the terms of my firearms certificate, I'm accountable for my firearm. If I cannot account for it's whereabouts, I need to inform the police firearms office that it's missing. At this point I am treating my rifle as stolen, and I will need to give your name to the Police as the airline rep I've spoken to.
At which point her face fell, she had a hurried phone conversation, and the case was in his hands 10 minutes later :D
So much for "all we can do is process your form and ship it back to you when it turns up"!
Sadly driving outside the UK to matches just isn't viable.
For a start fuel duty is extortionate.
It's cheaper in many cases to fly internally than drive. I have a friend who works on the South coast but home is Aberdeen. Far easier and cheaper for him to fly than to drive 13 hours.
Likewise going to Europe. By the time you cover car fuel, ferry fare and hotel costs (most European matches are in Munich or the Czech Republic. Not convenient places like France or Belgium! So it takes a couple of days to drive down), as well as the extra days holiday from work you have to book out, flying is the only viable option.
This is one of the very few advantages of the UK being so paranoid about firearms. Put the words "airport", "firearm" and "stolen" into one sentence and things happen very quickly!
Also helps if you hold individuals accountable instead of just the company as a whole.
I recall someone telling me about him returning from an international match.
When he got to baggage reclaim in the UK, his rifle case didn't come out.
Went up to the airline rep, who was the usual underpaid, uninterested grunt, and who shoved a standard form for lost baggage at him (even after being told it was a firearm that was lost).
After ascertaining that "there was nothing more that she could do" than process the form, he asked for her full name, and the name of her manager.
"Why?" She asked.
"Well, under the terms of my firearms certificate, I'm accountable for my firearm. If I cannot account for it's whereabouts, I need to inform the police firearms office that it's missing. At this point I am treating my rifle as stolen, and I will need to give your name to the Police as the airline rep I've spoken to.
At which point her face fell, she had a hurried phone conversation, and the case was in his hands 10 minutes later :D
So much for "all we can do is process your form and ship it back to you when it turns up"!
Sadly driving outside the UK to matches just isn't viable.
For a start fuel duty is extortionate.
It's cheaper in many cases to fly internally than drive. I have a friend who works on the South coast but home is Aberdeen. Far easier and cheaper for him to fly than to drive 13 hours.
Likewise going to Europe. By the time you cover car fuel, ferry fare and hotel costs (most European matches are in Munich or the Czech Republic. Not convenient places like France or Belgium! So it takes a couple of days to drive down), as well as the extra days holiday from work you have to book out, flying is the only viable option.
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Mike M. (as guest)
It helps to insure the baggage. Although the mention of "stolen" and "firearm" usually gets people's attention, even in the United States.
That being said, the right answer is to inspect the luggage in front of the passenger, then have him lock it. It would be all too easy for a terrorist to slip bombs into checked but unlocked bags.
TSA is Security Kabuki Theater.
That being said, the right answer is to inspect the luggage in front of the passenger, then have him lock it. It would be all too easy for a terrorist to slip bombs into checked but unlocked bags.
TSA is Security Kabuki Theater.
I remember in a previous life flying regularly to the States just afte 9/11, at Orlando all the individual scanning, shoe checking, hand luggage, etc was being checked by rather sweet blue rinsed old Ladies at least 80 years old with out a clue what they were looking for! Sadly in later years I think the contract was given to the remnants of the Gestapo who still didn't have a clue but were very nasty whilst trying to find out.
Best regards and Merry Xmas
Robin
Best regards and Merry Xmas
Robin
For me, a 12-14 drive is acceptable. When figuring in the cost of a ticket, and then possibly a vehicle, it's a wash
To go to the OTC is a 5-1/2 to 6 hour drive, and in most cases I can make it there faster than the airline can get me there. (My door to cases in the storage room), plus I have a vehicle if we want to hit Texas Roadhouse as is our "tradition" after a big match.
We have to fly ABQ-->DEN-->CSPR
Getting to Perry, Anniston or Benning however is a nightmare .... 22-26 hours on the road is tough to take ... almost necessary to fly. And it ain't cheap at all. And although the rifles are not supposed to be touched, in every case I've traveled, they have been handled and put back in the case differently (quite a feat considering all of our cases have cutouts) ... complaining about that does no good as the article states, each points the finger at the other
To go to the OTC is a 5-1/2 to 6 hour drive, and in most cases I can make it there faster than the airline can get me there. (My door to cases in the storage room), plus I have a vehicle if we want to hit Texas Roadhouse as is our "tradition" after a big match.
We have to fly ABQ-->DEN-->CSPR
Getting to Perry, Anniston or Benning however is a nightmare .... 22-26 hours on the road is tough to take ... almost necessary to fly. And it ain't cheap at all. And although the rifles are not supposed to be touched, in every case I've traveled, they have been handled and put back in the case differently (quite a feat considering all of our cases have cutouts) ... complaining about that does no good as the article states, each points the finger at the other
I still simply don't understand how an airport can be designed such that the carousels are in a public area so anyone can walk in off the street and take their pick.
Adelaide is the latest example, sometimes the cases are there before the passengers are through.
Travelling once with a group at least one firearm came through on the public carousel, the remainder were just dumped in a pile next to it and no checks made to match chits against tags.
Adelaide is the latest example, sometimes the cases are there before the passengers are through.
Travelling once with a group at least one firearm came through on the public carousel, the remainder were just dumped in a pile next to it and no checks made to match chits against tags.
One of the advantages of travelling in a group / disadvantages of travelling 'solo' is that you are never sure if the firearms are going to be on the carosel or at special baggage - and you cannot be in both places at the same time.JamesH wrote:I still simply don't understand how an airport can be designed such that the carousels are in a public area so anyone can walk in off the street and take their pick.
Adelaide is the latest example, sometimes the cases are there before the passengers are through.
Travelling once with a group at least one firearm came through on the public carousel, the remainder were just dumped in a pile next to it and no checks made to match chits against tags.
Luggage arriving at the carosel before the passengers is unlikely to be a problem at Sydney (domestic or international) terminals; but I have been delayed getting through immigration control (Heathrow and Santiago) to arrive at the collection point to find that my luggaage is lonely as it does the circuit/s on the carosel
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Freepistol
- Posts: 773
- Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:52 pm
- Location: Berwick, PA
Is the idea to tempt them so they can be caught and locked up again?Josed wrote:Just an FYI, the city of Saint Louis, MO. mandates that the airlines hire convicted fellons to handle luggage. Oh by the way, I'm a retired airline captain.
Last edited by Freepistol on Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ian H
Ah! But it is even better transiting through the UK with pistols and ammunition! (For those not in the know pistols, other than air are prohibited weapons in the UK, though not in certain offshore islands). The bureaucracy chase is entertaining.
First - the airline (only certain airlines can carry prohibited weapons), Second - the local police for the airport you are transiting through
Third - HMRC (Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs). It helps if one of the team members is a Customs Officer!
As you get off the aircraft and enter baggage reclaim you're met by Customs with your gun boxes that they have taken out of the hold. Armed escort to check-in through the main part of the airport, and then on to baggage referral.
The return was even better. Our return flight was delayed by 8 hours and we missed our connection home and were left with an overnight stopover. HMRC were very and we could not praise them too highly. They met us off the aircraft having agreed to store our firearms and ammo in their secure store overnight ( if they had not we would have been spending some time in the company of the 'boys in blue') Cost a fortune in mobile calls from the continent to the UK, 3 of us phoning the various bodies involved. (Mind you the comment from all of them saying we already know because we're looking at the flight details and we'll see you when you get in, was in the end appreciated.)
The best was at check-in next day for the return flight. Our guns etc were brought to the desk by 2 customs officers, and armed officer. The boxes were liberally covered in Customs seals. The check-in supervisor the usual guff about have the cases been out of your sight. Of course the answer was yes, but her next statement was the corker " I'm not sure we can accept these cases they might have been tampered with!" The look on the faces of the Customs Officers was a picture. I wouldn't want to be her on return from a next holiday abroad!
First - the airline (only certain airlines can carry prohibited weapons), Second - the local police for the airport you are transiting through
Third - HMRC (Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs). It helps if one of the team members is a Customs Officer!
As you get off the aircraft and enter baggage reclaim you're met by Customs with your gun boxes that they have taken out of the hold. Armed escort to check-in through the main part of the airport, and then on to baggage referral.
The return was even better. Our return flight was delayed by 8 hours and we missed our connection home and were left with an overnight stopover. HMRC were very and we could not praise them too highly. They met us off the aircraft having agreed to store our firearms and ammo in their secure store overnight ( if they had not we would have been spending some time in the company of the 'boys in blue') Cost a fortune in mobile calls from the continent to the UK, 3 of us phoning the various bodies involved. (Mind you the comment from all of them saying we already know because we're looking at the flight details and we'll see you when you get in, was in the end appreciated.)
The best was at check-in next day for the return flight. Our guns etc were brought to the desk by 2 customs officers, and armed officer. The boxes were liberally covered in Customs seals. The check-in supervisor the usual guff about have the cases been out of your sight. Of course the answer was yes, but her next statement was the corker " I'm not sure we can accept these cases they might have been tampered with!" The look on the faces of the Customs Officers was a picture. I wouldn't want to be her on return from a next holiday abroad!