TargetTalk

I am curious to ear from experinced shooters which is the correct one, if any or if both:

1.adjust sights with wrist and then lock it

2.bring your gun to shooting position and if the sights are not aligned re-grip.

IMHO the second solution is ,by far the best solution. But I have bad news tor you as I dont think it is possible to LOCK the wrist. You can , however train the muscles that stiffen the wrist to become stronger and you can learn to stiffen the wrist in the same position by the way you train. This usually means training with only one pistol and using exactly the same grip every time you train. Good Shooting Bill Horton

when I bring the gun to the firing position, usualy the aligment is ok, significant training creates this automation easily (say 1year 4 times week). The gun "dances" gently below the target, it´s my favorite moment :).
If something in my automated ritual goes off normal i abort the shoot.
It means you should have your wrist locked and the sights adjusted for this lock and train it often till it becomes natural.

2650 Plus wrote:I dont think it is possible to LOCK the wrist. Bill Horton

I suspected that much.
With a Morini grip on a TOZ I get close to it because of the angle of the grip, but even then the lock is most felt on the elbow.

I guess it is fair to say that if wrist locking doesn't exist, some movement always happens, and only training can educate this area to attain stillness. Practice, practice, practice.

2650 Plus wrote:You can , however train the muscles that stiffen the wrist to become stronger and ...

How, exactly? Where can one find specific wrist-strengthening exercises for shooting?

Let me sugest a technique I have personally used. Take your shooting grip place the muzzel of your pistol against a solid object { Maybe the shooting bench ] and press down. You should be able to feel the muscles that hold the wrist in proper position. With the muscles tensed raise the pistol to the firing position . Repeat many times until you know exactly how these muscles should feel when best control exists. Shoot when the feel is correct. Most important is the execution of the shot. Steadily increasing pressure , straight to the rear without disturbing sight allignment, while your total attention is devoted to perfecting sight allignment until well after the pistol has fired. Good Shooting Bill Horton

2650 Plus wrote:Let me sugest a technique I have personally used. Take your shooting grip place the muzzel of your pistol against a solid object { Maybe the shooting bench ] and press down.

6.2.2.4 While the shooter is on the firing point, the gun must always be pointed in a safe direction.

Anonymous wrote:How, exactly? Where can one find specific wrist-strengthening exercises for shooting?

1/ cheap, easy and effective:
- a piece of broom handle 10-12" long, 4ft string and a weight (about 500g/1lb)
- wind up the weight using both hands, with the hands/arms at shoulder height and palms down
- wind down the weight using both hands, with the hands/arms at shoulder height and palms down
Repeat with palms up

2/ cheap, easy and effective:
- small pulley mounted at side of a doorway opening
- light rope
- plastic milk container with 1 - 2 lbs (1/2 - 1 kg) water
With arm at shoulder height pull down on rope to raise container
- repeat with palm up, palm down, palm to the right, palm to the left
pull up on rope to raise contaner
- repeat with palm up, palm down, palm to the right, palm to the left
Repeat each time you walk past or through doorway - this will build up conditioning of wrist, arm and shoulder...

3/ a gyrowrister or similar

If it hurts STOP! - lots of us who believed in 'no pain, no gain' principle are now reaping the pains and disabilities of that disastrous mantra.

Spencer wrote: 1/ cheap, easy and effective:
- a piece of broom handle 10-12" long, 4ft string and a weight (about 500g/1lb)
- wind up the weight using both hands, with the hands/arms at shoulder height and palms down
- wind down the weight using both hands, with the hands/arms at shoulder height and palms down
Repeat with palms up

Is that genuine? I always assumed it was just made up for the movies.

sandy22 wrote:

Spencer wrote: 1/ cheap, easy and effective:
- a piece of broom handle 10-12" long, 4ft string and a weight (about 500g/1lb)
- wind up the weight using both hands, with the hands/arms at shoulder height and palms down
- wind down the weight using both hands, with the hands/arms at shoulder height and palms down
Repeat with palms up

Is that genuine? I always assumed it was just made up for the movies.

Genuine

As mentioned by Spencer

3/ a gyrowrister or similar

A "Dynaflex" has helped me.

I might suggest two thoughts but neither are exactly locking the wrist. Both are reducing the movement. Consider that the wrist is a joint designed to move. Most of what we do in life teaches us to move the wrist. Shooting is one of the few activities that ask us to hold the wrist joint steady.

One is if you are really looking at your sights rather than the outline of the front sights against the bullseye, you will see the movement of the front sight in the rear sight. Do drills at home ask a blank wall to see your sights moving in relationship to each other and then try to reduce the movement.

Some shooters try to squeeze the sap out of the wood grips to lock the wrist. That is probably not needed but firmness of grip, I suspect, is somewhat personal choice, just remain consistent through the entire shoot process (sometimes called follow-through).

Another approach may be what are friend 2650plus refers to as a steady increase of trigger pressure until the shot breaks. Brian Zins talked about controlling the front sight with your trigger finger.

All are towards a steady or stable hand and wrist.

OH yeah, lots of training.

Griping is becoming a very interesting subject to me, and possibly the one of most importance to my scores.
Since the wrist has extensor and gripping mechanisms, the idea of locking the wrist is out the window, but the nerve structure of the hand is revealing something new to me.
Only the ring finger and baby finger should be used for gripping, since the nerves they use don't ramify into the index finger, the middle finger is indirectly connected by nerves to the index /trigger finger, and shoud not be used without consequences to gripping and trigger finger movement.
Here is a chart of the hand enervation, that better shows what I am trying to get at http://www.scoi.com/images/scoi-hand2.jpg and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nerve ... remity.gif and some charts for the hand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wrist ... ion-en.svg hope you have some fun testing what a correct grip should be as I am from studying these charts http://moon.ouhsc.edu/dthompso/namics/hand.htm#lumbric

paulo wrote:Griping is becoming a very interesting subject to me, and possibly the one of most importance to my scores.
Since the wrist has extensor and gripping mechanisms, the idea of locking the wrist is out the window, but the nerve structure of the hand is revealing something new to me.
Only the ring finger and baby finger should be used for gripping, since the nerves they use don't ramify into the index finger, the middle finger is indirectly connected by nerves to the index /trigger finger, and shoud not be used without consequences to gripping and trigger finger movement.
Here is a chart of the hand enervation, that better shows what I am trying to get at http://www.scoi.com/images/scoi-hand2.jpg and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nerve ... remity.gif and some charts for the hand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wrist ... ion-en.svg hope you have some fun testing what a correct grip should be as I am from studying these charts http://moon.ouhsc.edu/dthompso/namics/hand.htm#lumbric

I have a theory that I'm working on that it is possible to train the hand to isolate the muscles controlling the trigger finger from the others. In training, I concentrate individually on each finger for a day or two at a time. So yesterday, for example was "thumb day." I worked on nothing but keeping the muscles controlling my thumb at the exact same level of tension throughout the shot (and thus completely immobile). This builds "muscle memory" over time so that I don't have to think about it at all and it 'knows" how to do it. Same for each other finger, wrist, arm, shoulder, chest, etc.

It seems to be working.

As a post script regarding the thumb -- at least with my thumb, the base of the thumb is half the palm, and the palm is where the gun is seated so keeping the thumb tension very consistent and keeping that "hardness" of the palm the same throughout the shot is very important to a good shot. With my hand at least, the thumb absolutely can't just be ignored.

Philadelphia wrote:I have a theory that I'm working on that it is possible to train the hand to isolate the muscles controlling the trigger finger from the others.

It is not a theory.
It is called "music"; playing an instrument. Only many millions of other humans do it.

A.

Alexander wrote:

Philadelphia wrote:I have a theory that I'm working on that it is possible to train the hand to isolate the muscles controlling the trigger finger from the others.

It is not a theory.
It is called "music"; playing an instrument. Only many millions of other humans do it.

A.

That's funny -- I wish I had thought of that. You have a point there.

I've had several people tell me that it's basically impossible. Obviously it's not.

Alexander wrote:

Philadelphia wrote:I have a theory that I'm working on that it is possible to train the hand to isolate the muscles controlling the trigger finger from the others.

It is not a theory.
It is called "music"; playing an instrument. Only many millions of other humans do it.

A.

As a long-time, and former professional, woodwind instrument player, I can assure you that triggering without unwanted movement in the rest of the hand is far more difficult than fingering a key on an instrument.

FredB

what i do is to have the wrist locked before i even raise my pistol.

after raising, i dont make any changes. if by any chance the alignment of the sights are off on the target, i abort.

but i guess what i do is somewhat uncommon?

FredB wrote:As a long-time, and former professional, woodwind instrument player, I can assure you that triggering without unwanted movement in the rest of the hand is far more difficult than fingering a key on an instrument.

FredB

I'd agree with that but what I think of are some of the best magicians who develop remarkable dexterity and control in each muscle in their hands (requiring many years of practice of course). While it may take a good while to sort out the nerve pathways and develop true independent control, I can't as of yet be convinced that it's not possible.

In terms of the practical implications, I see it as sort of a chicken/egg question. Is triggering moving the trigger straight back in a way that doesn't disturb the sights, or holding the sights aligned (wrist/hand locked)while triggering. Obviously it's both but developing the skill needed to do that increasingly effortlessly and thus consistently is key.