TargetTalk

All,

Our club is considering purchasing .22 semi-autos so our kids can start training in Sport Pistol, Standard Pistol and even Rapid Fire Pistol. Realizing that the better pistols, Pardini, Morini, etc., are too expensive for beginners, the question becomes what pistol(s) are suitable?

We are currently considering Rugers with improved triggers and ISSF-legal grips, and my understanding is the bull barrel versions will fit in the box. But, are there any other pistols for us to consider that don't cost a fortune?

TIA

Stan

I think you have a great plan. Go with it!

I've seen National class shooters doing it.

I'd look at the Browning Buckmarks

Gwhite wrote:I'd look at the Browning Buckmarks

G,

How would you compare the Browning to the Ruger?

Stan

Hard to say, I haven't shot either very much. Many years ago, MIT bought Rugers for their Physical Education classes. They immediately had to be sent out for gunsmithing to install good target sights, steel triggers and to get trigger jobs. They wore out in about half the time the previous High Standards did. I don't know if any of these issues have been addressed in the newer models. They are supposed to be hard to clean.

Several fiends have Buckmarks and like them. My club has a bunch, and they don't seem to have trouble with them. They appear to be easier to clean than the Rugers, and are loosely based on the old Browning Medalist design, which was a very nice pistol.

There are certainly more aftermarket accessories available for the Rugers. Some folks would claim that this is because they need them. Ruger is famous for making relatively inexpensive, OK guns. Browning has a reputation for making more expensive, but good, guns.

The price difference could easily be eaten up if the Rugers all have to have trigger jobs. I don't know of anyone who has had to get a trigger job for a Buckmark right out of the box.

Hi

From what I've heard, both shoot equally well with respect to accuracy and reliability. The main factor is whether you want to go through the pain of disassembling the Ruger with it's strange spring loaded pin in the grip or take the sights off the Buckmark when you want to clean it.

I DO own a Ruger and it shoots pretty good, I bought the Marvel so the grip angles on all of my guns would be the same. The Ruger shoots will with Federal 510, CCI Standard, and Federal 711 (B?).

Later

Mike
Wichita KS

Well I own both a Ruger MKIII (with Volquarten upgrades) and a Browning Buckmark Target 5.5 - and I can without hesitation say that both are lousy. Lousy triggers, lousy grips, lousy balance, and lousy adjustability. Although both are very accurate.

I should have looked a little harder for a 'real' used .22 target pistol and spent a little more - which was what was suggested on this board (to me) previously.

Sorry, but it will take both some time and work to track down a few good used .22 target pistols - plus some more money.

I would go with a High Standard Trophy or Citation Military. Make sure to get the type with the push button instead of the one with an allen screw holding on the barrel if you get one used. I had a Browning Buck Mark and it literally fell apart the first year I had it. Plus the trigger was really horrendous. I still have a Ruger MKII Bull Barrel and while it may be hard to take apart to clean, it is extremely reliable and easy to drop a Volquartsen Trigger in as well as put Morini grips on it. Pac-Lite also makes an upper receiver that is very light weight and accurate. For the money I would go with a High Standard since they are proven and have an adjustable trigger. I still have mine and would not hestitate to use it in a match if my Walther GSP Expert developed a problem.

Hi Stan,

Have you considered the S&W 22A? I have one and it's lightweight, reasonably accurate, and has a decent trigger. (I can shoot low-to-mid-90s with it NRA bullseye slow fire at 50 yards.)

There's also the Walther SP22, which I haven't tried but seems to start at the right price point.

JB

All,

Thanks for all of the replies. I will look into the suggested pistols.

I am very familiar with the older Rugers and am disappointed to hear some bad reviews of the newer versions. The S&W pistol certainly seems good from a price perspective. And while it costs a bunch more, the Walther SP22-M4 looks like a good interim step to the high-end pistols.

Please continue to post your advice as we aren't anywhere close to making a decision yet.

Stan

Hi

You can also consider the Benelli MP 95, not much more expensive than the Walther, good as is, besides, it is upgradable changing grips and trigger module to the MP-90S when budget permits.

I would suggest your club purchase an older model top match pistol (ie GSP) along with a second tier pistol such as a Ruger or S&W Model 41, and get your juniors to work out which performs better. This exercise will assist their decision-making when they are in a position to buy their first .22 - and maybe they will realise that spending more to compete with a top match pistol is the best way to go.

Hi Stan,

I also should add that Paul Benneche at UVa is an excellent resource for these types of things. He has worlds of experience in selecting and purchasing guns for junior and collegiate programs.

Drop him a line; if you have trouble getting in touch, let me know and I can shake my Wahoo alumni tree and see what falls out :)

JB

Popeye wrote:I would suggest your club purchase an older model top match pistol (ie GSP) along with a second tier pistol such as a Ruger or S&W Model 41, and get your juniors to work out which performs better. This exercise will assist their decision-making when they are in a position to buy their first .22 - and maybe they will realise that spending more to compete with a top match pistol is the best way to go.

I would be inclined to agree with this idea, but one has to consider that better pistols have specialized grips that cannot be used by left handers, so unless you can afford a dedicated pistol for the left handers it will be neccessary to have at least one basic pistol without handed grips.

You could have a separate left handed grip if someone has the patience to exchange it when required.

Good luck with your new juniors.

I posted a similar post some years ago when I was on our club executive and we were looking at replacing our fleet of MK1 Rugers. We ended up purchasing 12 new MK3 Rugers and while I wouldn’t go as far to say we're disappointed. They have not lived up to the durability of the MK1s.

The biggest issues surround the new location of the mag release and how much of a pain it is to fully strip the pistol. We shoot a variety of STD vel ammo - what ever we can get these days.

I personally like the Browning BuckBark as a good all around 22. I'd even suggest getting a few non-bull barrels in case you have Jrs, women or older men who find the weight of the BB a challenge.

I believe Berretta has a Gun Club program (or used too) that offered clubs a deal on pistols.

Used GSPs might be the answer, but thats in a different price range.

Brian

I have a buckmark that has had over 20000 rds through it with only one minor stopage. The magazine base plate came off. The only modification has been a set of K&N grips.
Recoil recovery is not in the same league as a quality target pistol but still good enough for 25m and standard. Shot 25m last weekend with it and managed 559 with one sub 40 rapid series when I lost the plot. So I would have to say accuray is more than good enough for a beginer.
Rapid is a bit of a challange with it, I do manage the occasional 45+ in the 4 sec series although it is the exception more than the rule. Probably more a reflection of my shooting skills than the buckmark design.

You could opt for either the High Standard or S&W Model 41. You might want to approach S&W and see what they will do for the club to encourage new shooters.

Hi I am just new here and I want to ask if a semi auto pistol is good for a first timer?

______________________
There's no place for the weak on this earth. Weapons like collapsible batons are created to be used.

>>>...eDwaRdz...<<<

eDwaRdz wrote:Hi I am just new here and I want to ask if a semi auto pistol is good for a first timer?

Yes. For any ISSF or NRA event, a revolver is a handicap for any shooter. For a beginner it's worse.

Russ Doucette started a program, where he is buying guns, and than gives the guns to shooters and clubs with payment program. This way you won't sacrifice quality and go with the higher class pistols, which ultimately will give better results and will last longer. I can get you the contact, if you need, so you can ask how it works.