TargetTalk

six hold means top of front sight on six ring.

sub-six means top of front sight below six ring.

What is true center hold? Top of front sight on the middle? Or, front sight just obliterate the black target? (square in circle)

Is it square blocking the circle, or top of square across middle of circle?

Top of the front sight in the middle of the ten ring

Defining Different Holds from Illustration
http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=19579

on the illustration, option B is six edge hold. Many coaches have said it is not a good hold because it is too fine.

option A, "center hold" with top edge across middle, isn't it also a too fine hold with middle as an aim?

Has anyone try the center hold where front sight square is in the middle of circle? In this way target has "nothing particular to aim".

Chris Bauer wrote:Has anyone try the center hold where front sight square is in the middle of circle? In this way target has "nothing particular to aim".

I haven't tried it but would be worried that there would be a tendancy to concentrate on the front sight rather than on the relationship between the front and rear sights.

My centre hold is slightly low of the centre. With the white aiming marks on the rapidfire target I sit the top of the rear sight just under the aiming marks.
So you can still see all the aiming mark above the sights (approx the bottom of the ten ring).

I've shot center hold forever, Why? The target bullseye is perfectly round and for some strange reason the human eye seems to be able to find the exact center of a round object.;[ Ask amy small bore shooter ] So center hold gives me a clear reference point for establishing my aiming area in a very consistant area on the target. As I settle into my aiming area there is no need to concern myself with the target as [so far] it has never moved. One more reason is that my bullets hit the target on point of aim. I don't know why but that seems to me to be a very desireable out come. And last, Hershel Anderson set our three gun national match record using center hold. That record has stood saince the mid 1960s. Not even Bryan Zins has been able to eclipse Hershels effort. Good Shooting Bill Horton

I've shot center hold forever, Why? The target bullseye is perfectly round and for some strange reason the human eye seems to be able to find the exact center of a round object.;[ Ask amy small bore shooter ] So center hold gives me a clear reference point for establishing my aiming area in a very consistant area on the target. As I settle into my aiming area there is no need to concern myself with the target as [so far] it has never moved. One more reason is that my bullets hit the target on point of aim. I don't know why but that seems to me to be a very desireable out come. And last, Hershel Anderson set our three gun national match record using center hold. That record has stood saince the mid 1960s. Not even Bryan Zins has been able to eclipse Hershels effort. Good Shooting Bill Horton

What I don't understand is why aren't (10m) targets made with a white centre (10 ring)? All this discussion/debate about hold would disappear.

2650 Plus wrote:I've shot center hold forever, Why? The target bullseye is perfectly round and for some strange reason the human eye seems to be able to find the exact center of a round object.;[ Ask amy small bore shooter ]

<snip>
I agree it does but you cannot see the whole target because there's a massive post in front of it. You are actually visualising a stick with a semicircular 'bit' stuck on top of it, which visually is not the same as finding the centre of a circle. I can only centre aim on rapid fire targets, and as per one of the other posters, I aim slightly below centre, around the bottom of the bull.

Small-bore is visually very different, in that you're aligning three concentric rings in an even pattern - the eye recognises the ordered pattern with equal gaps as perfect.

Rob.

So back to my original question.

What is the best center hold?

Area aim, use front sight square blocking the circle, like a sub-six idea.

Or aim with top of front sight across the middle of circle, or slightly below the circle, like a six hold idea. (just like six hold, too fine?)

So back to my original question.

What is the best center hold?

Area aim, use front sight square blocking the circle, like a sub-six idea.

Or aim with top of front sight across the middle of circle, or slightly below the circle, like a six hold idea. (just like six hold, too fine?)

Chris Bauer wrote:So back to my original question.

What is the best center hold?

Area aim, use front sight square blocking the circle, like a sub-six idea.

Or aim with top of front sight across the middle of circle, or slightly below the circle, like a six hold idea. (just like six hold, too fine?)

What's best is what works for you. Experiment and see.

Rob.

No noticeable difference between the three for me as far as the score goes, but front sight blocking the circle feels "easier", but also "chancier", feeling like spraying pellets all over 9/10 area, no particular concentration area, just all over. With top of front sight across middle, or slightly below "finer" hold, pellets are finer focused, but it also carries more occasional "darn it" flyers.

So go for "all over", "easier" spray, or go for more mentally challenging "more fulfilling" "draining" finer center hold?

Or, front sight just obliterate the black target? (square in circle)

This is what I came to use for duelling since it worked well, it makes you look at the centre of the foresight and obliterates shot holes as they appear - which I found a real distraction.
It was by accident initially, my fixed sight Browning Hi Power seemed to need to be shot this way so I got used to it while practising Service Pistol.
Then it seemed very natural for all the other matches.

FWIW, I sometimes think of my center hold as a "deep sub-12 hold".

FredB

I am not aware of where I am holding when the pistol fires. As I have posted many times i settle into my aiming area in the center of the bull, hold the pistol as still as I can and with the trigger finger moving steadily my total concentration and eye focus is on the front sight and dealing with the problem of perfecting sight allignment before the gun fires. The most difficult time occurs when perfection occures and the gun has yet to fire. Sustaining perfection while waiting for the pistol to fire often results in a less than satisfactory outcome. Others have posted very simular shot sequencies and I do believe this is the most productive method of firing the shot. For sustained fire strings I believe that starting the finger movine as soon as you can after firing the first shot and continuing that movement until the shot fires alows suffeicient time to begin perfecting sight allignment and on all targets except the ISSF a smale error will not result in a loss of points. Good Shooting Bill Horton

FredB wrote:FWIW, I sometimes think of my center hold as a "deep sub-12 hold".

FredB

I don't understand this, Fred! Please enlighten me.

12 O'Clock hold would mean centering your aiming area at the top of the distraction bull . . . sub 12 would be allowing a little of the distraction bull to peek over the top of the sight . . . etc. . . .

Note to the original pster: in evaluating any element of technique (preferred sight picture in this case), the first step is to define exactly what you mean by "better."

In this case, I would humbly submit that "better" *must* be defined as "center your wobble area on that area downrange which allows you to concentrate on perfect alignment the best" ie the hold which helps your focus physically on the front sight and mentally on keeping front and rear sights aligned, without distraction or interference frm any ohter element in your sight picture."

Steve

Freepistol wrote:

FredB wrote:FWIW, I sometimes think of my center hold as a "deep sub-12 hold".

FredB

I don't understand this, Fred! Please enlighten me.

The phrase "center hold" seems to imply to many people that the shooter is attempting to consciously aim at a single point, the very center of the target. However for a pistol shooter to succeed, he/she must place the aligned sights in an area and visually concentrate solely on alignment, as 2650+ and SteveS explain so well. So, by using the phrase "deep sub-12 hold" I am trying to emphasize the area aspect of the center hold. Depending on the shooter's holding steadiness, the target, the distance and the gun, the hold area may be as large as the entire black.

HTH,
FredB