TargetTalk

Often, there's lots of kvetching about how rapid fire requires a lot of specialized equipment and there are very few rapid fire ranges in the US outside of Colorado Springs and Ft. Benning.

This past Sunday, I competed in a very well-run USAS RFP PTO at Chabot Gun Club in Castro Valley, CA, that was held on stationary targets with a $130 shot timer. This is completely legal within USAS rules (see Sect. 6.3.17B).

(A shout-out to Rudy S. and David G., who made it all possible.)

This was the real deal. I've competed in RF matches throughout the world, and the local club stacks up. (To wit: sadly, I lost a shot due to a double malfunction, and ate another 10 [possible] points due to being 0.05s late on a 6s string.)




Yes, Virginia, that man is shooting a High Standard.




Folks, rapid fire really is as simple as this:


(50-foot reduced targets)

and this:



Given the above, I can't picture a gun club that I've belonged to where you couldn't staple up 5 targets, grab a shot timer, and run an international rapid fire match.

So start it at your club!

ETA: 0.05s rather than 0.15s; it helps to read the rule book.

I totally agree with you John, as the Freeport R&R on Long Island has been doing the same for a few years now. While there is another local club with 2 bays of air turned targets for RF hardly any use is made of that range for RF---perhaps once a year if and when. The Freeport International Team does have a wooden array for 25 yards and have also used the shot timer as you indicated. We are currently thinking about a more substantial Indoor (50ft.) array using operating Red & Green lights. Target Timers of Canada manufacture a controller which ends in an DPDT 15A. relay output for operating the lights, if you have the bucks---otherwise the shot timer is about 1/3rd the cost. There is another home built unit for 50ft available in NYS for the Empire Games which hosts the RF venue as well. Believe me we have used wooden frames for the targets and have hosted trials for the ES Games on several occasions. So you can support the event at your club with a little bit of effort and a minimum of expense, plus I am willing to bet that someone in your club owns a shot timer. You can have a RF set up for less than $50 if there is a shot timer available. Try it, you'll like it. "Doc"

Thanks for the informative post John. I do have one question and please excuse my ignorance. Does the shot timer give you a start buzzer and stop buzzer for each string of fire?

John, thanks for this informative post. I too, am an advocate of using shot timers for Rapid Fire matches.

Shot timers can be set with "Par Times" for 8, 6 or 4 seconds. The shot timer picks up the sound of each shot and most will display, in hundredths of a second, the total elapsed time for each shot, and the elapsed time from the previous shot (split time).

I use my shot timer for training, and it only takes me 3-4 minutes to set up the target array and I am ready to go. If I hit the "Review" button on my timer, I can see the elapsed time from the audible start tone to my first shot, then the split time between each shot. Of course, the most important time is the total elapsed time of the fifth shot. The timer will make an audible tone at the end of the par time. So when practicing, or in a match, one only has to check out the time of the last shot when it occurs at or after the stop tone.

In a match, the only downside (and a minor one) is that only one shooter may shoot at a time.

Here is the relevant USA rule:
USA6.3.17B In USA Shooting sanctioned PTO’s for all 25m events an acoustic shot timer with audible start and stop signals on a fixed target array may be used if turning or electronic scoring targets are not used/available. Any shots fired before the start signal or after the stop signal (plus a built-in 1/10th second buffer) will be scored as misses. The timer must be capable of being set to 8, 6 and 4 seconds. Only one shooter should fire at a time to prevent shots from surrounding shooters from causing a false reading. National Records may not be set using this method. This method may not be used for team selection.

Best Regards,
Slo cat

ETA: I thought the buffer was 0.15 seconds, but per the above it is 0.10 sec.

Hi Steve,

I thought I remembered this was what you and Bob M. were doing at Arvada? I don't think I ever shot RF there but I seem to remember you talking about it.

It's fun shooting it with a timer. I've been training this way for 5 or 6 years, and I think it's a better approximation of shooting on electronic targets (like all the big matches are anyhow) than shooting on turning targets that turn sloooooowly like most bullseye ranges seem to do :)

Getting the shot split times, especially for the first shot, is really helpful training feedback.

john bickar wrote:
It's fun shooting it with a timer. I've been training this way for 5 or 6 years, and I think it's a better approximation of shooting on electronic targets (like all the big matches are anyhow) than shooting on turning targets that turn sloooooowly like most bullseye ranges seem to do :)

John,

So you train with the timer which has an audio cue to begin and end shooting, but the big matches use electronic targets which have a visual cue (red and green lights)? Have you found any difficulty adapting between the 2 different types of cue?

Thanks,
FredB

Bob-Riegl wrote:I totally agree with you John, as the Freeport R&R on Long Island has been doing the same for a few years now. While there is another local club with 2 bays of air turned targets for RF hardly any use is made of that range for RF---perhaps once a year if and when. The Freeport International Team does have a wooden array for 25 yards and have also used the shot timer as you indicated. We are currently thinking about a more substantial Indoor (50ft.) array using operating Red & Green lights. Target Timers of Canada manufacture a controller which ends in an DPDT 15A. relay output for operating the lights, if you have the bucks---otherwise the shot timer is about 1/3rd the cost. There is another home built unit for 50ft available in NYS for the Empire Games which hosts the RF venue as well. Believe me we have used wooden frames for the targets and have hosted trials for the ES Games on several occasions. So you can support the event at your club with a little bit of effort and a minimum of expense, plus I am willing to bet that someone in your club owns a shot timer. You can have a RF set up for less than $50 if there is a shot timer available. Try it, you'll like it. "Doc"

Hi Bob,

When I was in high school and just starting to get into rapid fire, Dennis Jayes arranged for one of the 50' RF bays to be brought from one of the clubs in western New York state (Tenex I think?) to the Canton McKinley club in Ohio. I trained on that for a few years at 50'.

I'm glad to hear the Empire State Games are still going; one of the best examples of grassroots international pistol shooting in the US. I wish there were more competitions like that in other states.

FredB wrote: Have you found any difficulty adapting between the 2 different types of cue?

Nope. None whatsoever.

John the ESGames took a bad budget hit this year and the games are for all purposes gone for this year. However, we will have a statewide shooting festival in it's place. It will be an Open event (no regional trials) for shooting and will feature Free Pistol, Air pistol, Women's Sport Pistol and Rapid Fire. Of course their will also be Rifle events as well and maybe shotgun as well. Hopefully, we will be able to get the games operating again next year, but it will be austerity without the usual trappings and uniforms. I do not know if Pennsylvania still runs a state games as they did a few years back. Keep up the good work with RF---let's hope for some more USA slots for the next Big Show in London. "Doc"

Hi John Bickar,

Where is the range in Colorado Springs? I lived there back in 2003 just off Garden of the Gods and never got to any target shooting. Did lots of 4 wheeling though!!!!!!!!

Thanks Slocat for the detailed explanation of the use of the timer for Int'l Rapid Fire matches. It looks like there are no excuses for adding it to a club's agenda.