TargetTalk

I am having some trouble all the sudden with 10m AP, my shots are missing the 10 and lining up on the right side of the nine ring. I've also noticed that I am now canting the gun slightly, counterclockwise a few degrees.

I'm not good at visualizing these things...is the cant possibly related to the pellets wandering right? I kind of suspect my trigger finger position has changed slightly (my grip and trigger finger position is my next goal to make more consistent)...but could it be the cant? And if so, it has sort of happened "naturally", should I just adjust the windage or should I try to keep the sights level?

If it matters to the advise, I am shooting about 550 +/- 10

When I have horizontal shifts in point of impact, it is usually due to either change in grip or change in trigger finger placement. It would seem that a counterclockwise cant shouldn't shift your group to the right. If it happens consistently, I would say watch your sighters and just adjust your sights accordingly. Note that when your gun is canted, you'll have to play with both windage and elevation changes to move the point of impact horizontally. If it is inconsistent such that it comes and goes during your 60 shots, you'll have to try to narrow down what you are changing to cause it, and then try to focus on being consistent. Now, if only it were as easy to do that as it is to write it down....

Kevin Walker

i had similar problem, my score from 575 then go down to 570, 569, and 555. than i make several adjusmen. the important thing is i make minor adjustemt in my grip and trigger. Yesterday my scoreing rise to 571. not bad still working to shoot 580. horisontal elevation (canted) in air pistol happen several time but not big problem. I often saw my shooting 10 not so level but not extreme canted. But major problem will happen if i wrong place my finger on trigger.

melchloboo wrote:I am having some trouble all the sudden with 10m AP, my shots are missing the 10 and lining up on the right side of the nine ring. I've also noticed that I am now canting the gun slightly, counterclockwise a few degrees.

I'm not good at visualizing these things...is the cant possibly related to the pellets wandering right? I kind of suspect my trigger finger position has changed slightly (my grip and trigger finger position is my next goal to make more consistent)...but could it be the cant? And if so, it has sort of happened "naturally", should I just adjust the windage or should I try to keep the sights level?

If it matters to the advise, I am shooting about 550 +/- 10

I very much doubt cant would make any difference, unless it's massive. As with all things consistency is the goal, so you need to ensure you're doing the same thing for the entire match.

I would suggest it could well be a triggering issue, perhaps compounded by an inconsistent grip. If your trigger finger position has changed then correct it. Make sure it's in the right place or abort and repeat the shot process. The only other thing I'd suggest is to really make sure you take up the grip on the gun exactly the same for every shot. I advise taking the gun out of the hand and re-gripping every time, and if it feels wrong then do it again.

As far as training drills go, I'd suggest doing plenty of dry firing and watch the foresight for any drift during your follow through.

Rob.

I am beginning to think the slight change in grip angle may be changing the way I see the sights? Whatever the problem it is very consistent. My groups are about the same size as ever, just slightly right. I could just give a few windage clicks and move on to other more serious problems (challenges!)...such as the 2 7's I inevitably hit each match....

melchloboo wrote:I am beginning to think the slight change in grip angle may be changing the way I see the sights? Whatever the problem it is very consistent. My groups are about the same size as ever, just slightly right. I could just give a few windage clicks and move on to other more serious problems (challenges!)...such as the 2 7's I inevitably hit each match....

The windage knob is there for a reason. If shots are consistently going right then wind it a few clicks to re-centre. Groups shift from day to day for no obvious reason. Don't worry about tryng to get the shots to go further left, just wind the knob and work on getting the technique right. If the groups start moving left then twiddle the knob again.

Rob.

Don't worry about tryng to get the shots to go further left, just wind the knob and work on getting the technique right. If the groups start moving left then twiddle the knob again.

Rob.

Good advice Rob.

deadeyedick wrote:

Don't worry about tryng to get the shots to go further left, just wind the knob and work on getting the technique right. If the groups start moving left then twiddle the knob again.

Rob.

Good advice Rob.

The short version "Trust it, or adjust it"

Work on getting your technique right . . . *then* adjust the knobs . . .

If your shot group has changed, your technique has changed (maybe for the better, OBTW).

Last couple of times we had this thread (ran to multiple pages each and every time) it boiled down to your belief in using the windage knob to cover up technique errors or not.

I personally follow the "refine your technique" religion and not the "maximize your points" school of thought.

YMMV

[ps IIRC the cant factor threads were also illuminating. The amount of change in cant would have to be pretty extreme to create a noticeable change in group position I think.]

Steve Swartz as Guest wrote:Work on getting your technique right . . . *then* adjust the knobs . . .

If your shot group has changed, your technique has changed (maybe for the better, OBTW).

Last couple of times we had this thread (ran to multiple pages each and every time) it boiled down to your belief in using the windage knob to cover up technique errors or not.

I personally follow the "refine your technique" religion and not the "maximize your points" school of thought.

YMMV

[ps IIRC the cant factor threads were also illuminating. The amount of change in cant would have to be pretty extreme to create a noticeable change in group position I think.]

Not that I'm disagreeing with you as such Steve, but in a competition points make prizes, so get as many as you can and sort the technique out in training.

Rob.

melchloboo wrote:

I'm not good at visualizing these things...is the cant possibly related to the pellets wandering right?

Here's a great little interactive demo to help you visualize what's happening when you cant a gun (rifle or pistol)

http://www.arld1.com/impactpointvscantangle.html

The demo (ad page) is "illustrative" but also somewhat "exaggerated" (as many adverts are) but is somewhat even more exaggerated due to being based on a scoped rifle with boreline-sightline difference around 1.5" or more.

Rob: "Here we go again!" =8^)

Steve

Well, at a minimum I'm convinced that canting probably cannot help much, nor that I'm likely to hurt anything by seek to be level even if my tendency of late is to cant...as you say though, my degree of cant is minor and hard to say if it makes a difference at 10m.

I'm sorry . . . almost forgot probably the most improtant issue.

The "amount" of cant isn't even a problem at all.

It's the *variation* in your cant shot-shot that causes problems.

You can have a 180 degree cant and shoot tens all day long.

As long as you aren't varying between 180 degrees and oh say 175 degrees "off and on" you are o.k.

Steve

Po--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry . . . almost forgot probably the most improtant issue.

The "amount" of cant isn't even a problem at all.

It's the *variation* in your cant shot-shot that causes problems.

You can have a 180 degree cant and shoot tens all day long.

As long as you aren't varying between 180 degrees and oh say 175 degrees "off and on" you are o.k.

Steve
sted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:36 am Post subject:

Definately the most important point.

Steve Swartz as Guest wrote:I'm sorry . . . almost forgot probably the most improtant issue.

The "amount" of cant isn't even a problem at all.

It's the *variation* in your cant shot-shot that causes problems.

You can have a 180 degree cant and shoot tens all day long.

As long as you aren't varying between 180 degrees and oh say 175 degrees "off and on" you are o.k.

Steve

Consistency is the key, but small changes of can't appear to make no difference in my experience - i.e 5 degrees as mentioned shouldn't noticeably affect the POI.

Rob.

Back in the prehistoric days we had a simple saying. If you curse and shoot a ten then you should curse the same curse every time. We were stressing consistancy. Try to control your emotions and maintain the emotional intensity at the same level through out a match. Next achieve consistant grip tensions from shot to shot. Consistancy in natural point of aim is also necessary. sight allignmennt is next and perfectly smoothe pressure applied to the trigger in order to achieve the firing of the shot without disturbing the hold is the goal. Last follow through,ie continue doing all you can do to perfect the shot well after the bullet has left the barrel. And you will win a lot of competitions grasshopper. Good Shooting Bill Horton