TargetTalk

I have has this pistol for about two months, and the first six times I shot it I had no problems or issues. I was using CCI SV, CCI green tag and CCI pistol match in it. I recently bought a case of Eley target to use at matches because of duds in the last case of CCI SV, and tried to use the Eley in my Feinwerkbau at a match yesterday. I could not get the ammo to feed. The chamber of the pistol was cleaned about a week ago with CLP and with a liberal application of CLP at the match I was able to get through slow fire but it was not pretty. I switched over to my 208S for the national match course and shot the rest of the match with the Eley alabi free. The main problem seemed to be tight case fit and not enough juice to eject the spent cases. Has anyone else had this problem with their Feinwerkbau and Eley? Isabel

With a (really) clean chamber, and the gun held with the barrel pointing down, I tried dropping a round of each of the brands of .22LR I had on hand into the chamber of my AW93. Of the brands I had, only Lapua Standard Club and RWS Target Pistol dropped freely into the chamber. The Eley Target Pistol (yellow label) required a very light push to fully chamber. Some brands required a very firm push to seat.
The Eley feeds reliably only if I clean the chamber fairly frequently (every 70-100 rounds). The Lapua and RWS continue to function reliably for much longer between cleanings.
The AW93 is infamous for its 'tight' chamber. I suggest the chamber drop test for any ammo you propose to use. Unfortunately, as yet, I have not found a 'cheap' brand that passes the test.
I suspect there will be a variation between lots of any one brand and between pistols, so YMMV.
Mike T.

Isabel1130 wrote:The main problem seemed to be tight case fit and not enough juice to eject the spent cases. Has anyone else had this problem with their Feinwerkbau and Eley?

You might want to read this thread.

I cleaned the bore totally and then dropped in some ammo. The CCI that went through the gun fine at first still sticks and the Eley Target sticks less. I think I am going to have to do some drop tests on different ammo. Anyone who can tell me what worked best in their AW93, that info would be appreciated. I sent an e mail to Roddy Toyota to ask him if he thinks the solution is some gun smithing. I know Brian Zins shoots this gun so I can also ask him what he uses. Thanks, Kate

Mike Taylor wrote:With a (really) clean chamber, and the gun held with the barrel pointing down, I tried dropping a round of each of the brands of .22LR I had on hand into the chamber of my AW93. Of the brands I had, only Lapua Standard Club and RWS Target Pistol dropped freely into the chamber. The Eley Target Pistol (yellow label) required a very light push to fully chamber. Some brands required a very firm push to seat.
The Eley feeds reliably only if I clean the chamber fairly frequently (every 70-100 rounds). The Lapua and RWS continue to function reliably for much longer between cleanings.
The AW93 is infamous for its 'tight' chamber. I suggest the chamber drop test for any ammo you propose to use. Unfortunately, as yet, I have not found a 'cheap' brand that passes the test.
I suspect there will be a variation between lots of any one brand and between pistols, so YMMV.
Mike T.

If Lapua is OK, try SK Standard+ they should also fit and are usually cheaper (price depends a lot of countries !).

Eley are smaller than CCI but are also weaker what can explain the problem.

Mike Taylor wrote:Unfortunately, as yet, I have not found a 'cheap' brand that passes the test.

I use the cheapest ammo that I could found. I have bought in Germany 10.000 rounds Federal (approx. 1.8 Euro per 50 rounds).
And I shot it with my AW93 and TOZ35 (for competitions too). I have never had problems with Federal, except 2-4 misfires on my TOZ. I hope it shots further so as is.
No weak shots. Only those 2-4 misfires on my free pistol.

SP 292+ (from 300) with cheapest ammo - I find absolutely ok (for me).
(1.8 Euro for Federal VS. 6 Euro for ELEY Pistol Club).

Thanks for the suggestions for low-cost ammunition. Unfortunately, SK products do not seem to be available in Canada. Federal is though, but please, what is the load number (product number) of that blue box Champion Target ammo?
The Federal Premium web-site shows three Champion Target products in blue box. All are rather zippy - with muzzle velocity 1200fps and more.
Product 711B, on the other hand, is listed at 1080fps. which is more in line with 'standard' velocity ratings.

Mike Taylor wrote:what is the load number (product number) of that blue box Champion Target ammo?

FEDERAL Ammunition
Target Champion
.22 cal. LR, Standard velocity
40 Grain
Solid 714
Made in USA, ANOKA, MN 55303 USA


AW93
Series 21XXX

Interesting, Ruig-
The Federal Champion web-site does not even list a 714 product.
In Federal Champion Target, there is listed:
745 at 1260 fps,
AM22 at 1200 fps, and
510 at 1240 fps
All high velocity stuff. It would seem that the product list is not up to date.

I did rummage through my stock of ammo and found some Federal Champion 711 (old stuff). A firm push was required to force it into the AW93 chamber. Also found some newer Federal Gold Medal 711B. The latter drops easily into the AW93 chamber.
Three years ago, when I first did the drop test, I noted that the 711 (same brick) dropped in easily. In the intervening years the lubricant seems to have thickened and/or hardened - to the point that the rounds no longer chamber easily.

Mike Taylor wrote:The Federal Champion web-site does not even list a 714 product.
The lubricant seems to have thickened and/or hardened - to the point that the rounds no longer chamber easily.

Hm. Hothing to add. May be sepcial deployment for Europa?

My ammo is already 13 month old... and lubricant is dried and hardened. But I still have not problem with it.

Today, I did a drop test of all the standard velocity ammo I had on hand. Some of it was of the same lot as my initial test three years ago. In general, the aged ammo did not do as well today as it did then. Oxidized lead swelling, waxy lubricant hardening or migrating? Can't say for sure, but it emphasizes that the ammo one is going to use 'today' should be tested before use (probably only one or two rounds from the box is sufficient).
I did find one inexpensive brand that dropped readily into the chamber: Winchester Xpert 22 in the bulk box of 500. Now this has a 36-grain hollow point bullet, so it might not qualify under some rules (ISSF Rapid Fire Pistol for instance). Also, it has a listed muzzle velocity of 1220 fps; but from a handgun the listed muzzle velocity is less than that of T22 (925 fps vs 950 fps). So, from a handgun, it performs as standard velocity ammo. As well, based upon the box I have, I find the quality control on Xpert 22 to be less than acceptable for match competition - bent rounds that won't chamber and the occasional 'dud' that wouldn't fire first time.

ruig wrote:

Mike Taylor wrote:The Federal Champion web-site does not even list a 714 product.
The lubricant seems to have thickened and/or hardened - to the point that the rounds no longer chamber easily.

Hm. Hothing to add. May be sepcial deployment for Europa?

My ammo is already 13 month old... and lubricant is dried and hardened. But I still have not problem with it.

IIRC, several years ago Federal did produce 714 specially for Europe (evidently using a blue box). There was some over-production which a handful of US distributors snatched up (this was in red and black boxes). I was told that the specs were identical to 711B, i.e. true standard velocity. I bought (serially) 3 cases before the stores ran out. The first 2 cases were terrific - reliable, uniform in size, worked in just about any gun. The third case was not as good, in that the sizing was not as uniform, so it caused some problems. Still 714 was IMHO every bit as good as 711B at half the price. If anyone knows where it is still available, please tell me!

For ammo that is marginally too large or the lube is too sticky, you can zap it with Hornady One Shot Case Lube before you use it. Works great. Do a whole box at once after turning bullet end up.

HTH,
FredB

There is no ammo that just drops into my chamber and I have no problems with functioning.

I suggest it may be something else.

I'll post some photos of the working parts of my gun soon, so that you might be able to compare, to see if there is a difference.

Walter wrote:There is no ammo that just drops into my chamber and I have no problems with functioning.

I suggest it may be something else.

I'll post some photos of the working parts of my gun soon, so that you might be able to compare, to see if there is a difference.

I have totally bore brushed the chamber and run patches through it. I am going to try it again with the Eley and also with some Lapua that I ordered. If I can get though a match alabi free a few times I will have the solution. If not it will be back to the 208s for Bullseye and save the FWB with it's beautiful iron sights for Sport pistol/standard pistol at international matches.

If there isn't enough energy to fully cycle, the extracted brass might be dragging on the top of the next bullet.

To find out, shoot one round and drop the mag to see if the extracted brass is gouging the next bullet.

If it looks like this image, it might be dragging too much:

Since these mags are very worn, I have been experimenting with modifying them by grinding down the bottom of the mag to fit loosely in the frame. I was getting wear at the back of the mags where it sits against the ejector.
These are old mags. Be careful if you plan on modifying any new super expensive mags. I also ground down the front of the plastic follower where the bullet head sits. This helps the cartridges sit a little lower in the frame without modifying the mag openings.

Here's the average mag opening specs I measured from six mags.

If anyone has official numbers, please correct these.

If the brass is ejecting very slowly, or just dropping out, it could be caused by the ejector coming loose in the frame. It should be flat against the frame as shown.

Also, make sure the grip screws are not touching the hammer spring.


Here's some other bits and pieces to show the wear points on my gun.

Not sure if related to this thread or not. Just purchased a brand new AW93 and an additional magazine. All three jam exactly the same way as you can see in the pictures.
While they look the same these pictures are from three separate jams.
I have cleaned and it jammed on the third round.
I have tried Wolf Target Match and Eley Target makes no difference.
The only think that is consistent is the first round never jams, but it has jammed on 2nd through fifth round, no pattern.
All three magazines exhibit the same problems. I am starting to see why you see Pardinis everywhere at Bullseye matches and so few AW93s.

Chip

Chip, try to loosen recoil setting screw (bellow muzzle).