TargetTalk

Hi Shooters/ Coaches

I'm was a rifle shooter, now shifted to air pistol. During practice i' getting 570+/600. The main problem is with my heart beat rate, my normal heart beat rate is 95 to 110 beats/min. while in match it goes upto 135+ beats/min. bcz of that i cant shoot well and score goes to 540/600. Abt my exercise i'm very bad.. I heard regular exercise can reduce heart rate to normal. Plz anybody hav a solution for this. I'm taking shooting very seriously.. so plz help..

we'll be seeing you at the world cups pretty soon then :o

Since you say that you changed from rifle to pistol, I think that you may not be accepting the extra movement associated with pistol shooting. I recently added air rifle to my shooting program. The increased pulse for a match is to be expected for a lot of shooters. I know it is for me. We put pressure on ourselves. Match pressure = self pressure, due to high expectations.

This may be simplifying a bit, but this is a problem because you think it is. You should be able to shoot very good scores with the increased pulse rate as long as you accept your aiming area (arc of movement) and apply the fundamentals. Trigger control is the most important part of pistol shooting. If you don't trust your hold, you will snatch off shots when you think the sights are aligned perfectly with each other and that they are in the exact aiming point. You have to learn to trust that if you have the sights perfectly aligned with one another and focus on the front sight and apply trigger pressure straight to the rear and follow-through, you will get a good strike on the target.

Once you have gained confidence in the fundamentals at matches, your scores will improve. You need to focus on the fundamentals at a match, not scores. The good scores will come if you do this. If you don't have a written shot plan, you need to write one. Take it to the match and use it. It will put your mind on the business at hand... the fundamentals.

All the above will lessen anxiety and your heart rate should lower during matches, but like I said the heart rate is not the problem you think it is. Now all this is assuming that you have a good exercise program and diet. You should exercise to improve muscle tone and cardio vascular endurance. You should eat high protein meals and avoid sugar, caffeine, fat or anything that is hard for you to digest. Of course you should be abstaining from alcoholic beverages and nicotine in any form.

Wow 135+ bpm, I thought mine was bad in the 80's. Even your resting pulse rate at 95-110 bpm is high. What kind of physical shape are you in?

To reduce your heart rate there are only a few ways to do it.

1. Drugs, not a good way most if not all are banned.

2. Increase your cardio vascular fitness through cardio based exercise (as your resting is high this is probably a good place to start). Not knowing your age or fitness level you probably consult a doctor first, this would also rule out any medical condition that gives you a high pulse rate.

3. Relaxation techniques, such as meditation, yoga, progressive relaxation. This if done properly should help control performance anxiety based raises in heart rate.

Good luck, 570+ is a good achievement. That difference between practice and match really needs to be addressed and I doubt that heart is the cause, it might be just one of the symptoms. Get that addressed and you're well on your way, if you can shot 570 in practice there obviously no physical reason not to be able to do it in a competiton.

Where are you located? Do you have a coach?

Richard H wrote:Wow 135+ bpm, I thought mine was bad in the 80's. Even your resting pulse rate at 95-110 bpm is high. What kind of physical shape are you in?

To reduce your heart rate there are only a few ways to do it.

1. Drugs, not a good way most if not all are banned.

2. Increase your cardio vascular fitness through cardio based exercise (as your resting is high this is probably a good place to start). Not knowing your age or fitness level you probably consult a doctor first, this would also rule out any medical condition that gives you a high pulse rate.

3. Relaxation techniques, such as meditation, yoga, progressive relaxation. This if done properly should help control performance anxiety based raises in heart rate.

Good luck, 570+ is a good achievement. That difference between practice and match really needs to be addressed and I doubt that heart is the cause, it might be just one of the symptoms. Get that addressed and you're well on your way, if you can shot 570 in practice there obviously no physical reason not to be able to do it in a competiton.

Where are you located? Do you have a coach?

Hi

Myself from India, 26 of age.. Frankly speaking very lazy.. use car always.. in one month rareli i walk more than 5 km(totally from home to car , car to office same wise) In one month hardly take 50 Push ups. I hav 173 cm height with 66kg wieght. I dont take tea, coffee,alchols not even tobacco.. But a pure non vegetarian.. Every day i use chicken of beef for twicw(lunch and dinner)... In 50m peep rifle prone i never done practice before match, direct matches- score will be around 578-582/600 for last 8 years( no change in score band).. I dont hav shooting accessories with me , during national competition i usually borrows from other shooters... So i thought of changing from rifle to pistol... While in starting i was having a average of 92%, so i done little dry practise ( daily 45min) for two weeks, thn started live matches. Thn i had a scores of 570+.. during practises i had a pulse rate of 90-110. When i went to match , i had high match pressure(ie mentally not worked) with a pulse rate of 140+.. I cant hold the weapon properly then.. i lost holding even in first series i fired 81/100, then controlled tension and fired average of 91% and ended.. Then I realised to reduse my pulse rate.. So please help to giv a correct exersice details to perform well in future...

Misny wrote:Since you say that you changed from rifle to pistol, I think that you may not be accepting the extra movement associated with pistol shooting. I recently added air rifle to my shooting program. The increased pulse for a match is to be expected for a lot of shooters. I know it is for me. We put pressure on ourselves. Match pressure = self pressure, due to high expectations.

This may be simplifying a bit, but this is a problem because you think it is. You should be able to shoot very good scores with the increased pulse rate as long as you accept your aiming area (arc of movement) and apply the fundamentals. Trigger control is the most important part of pistol shooting. If you don't trust your hold, you will snatch off shots when you think the sights are aligned perfectly with each other and that they are in the exact aiming point. You have to learn to trust that if you have the sights perfectly aligned with one another and focus on the front sight and apply trigger pressure straight to the rear and follow-through, you will get a good strike on the target.

Once you have gained confidence in the fundamentals at matches, your scores will improve. You need to focus on the fundamentals at a match, not scores. The good scores will come if you do this. If you don't have a written shot plan, you need to write one. Take it to the match and use it. It will put your mind on the business at hand... the fundamentals.

All the above will lessen anxiety and your heart rate should lower during matches, but like I said the heart rate is not the problem you think it is. Now all this is assuming that you have a good exercise program and diet. You should exercise to improve muscle tone and cardio vascular endurance. You should eat high protein meals and avoid sugar, caffeine, fat or anything that is hard for you to digest. Of course you should be abstaining from alcoholic beverages and nicotine in any form.

Thx buddyy

I will be doing fine.... with comments from u all... Thx...

edster99 wrote:we'll be seeing you at the world cups pretty soon then :o

Surely buddy.... I'll be there in world cup and even in Olympics 2012. This year is very crusial for me in pistol... I want to be in National squad this year at any cost.. And i'll be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mmxx100 wrote:

Richard H wrote:Wow 135+ bpm, I thought mine was bad in the 80's. Even your resting pulse rate at 95-110 bpm is high. What kind of physical shape are you in?

To reduce your heart rate there are only a few ways to do it.

1. Drugs, not a good way most if not all are banned.

2. Increase your cardio vascular fitness through cardio based exercise (as your resting is high this is probably a good place to start). Not knowing your age or fitness level you probably consult a doctor first, this would also rule out any medical condition that gives you a high pulse rate.

3. Relaxation techniques, such as meditation, yoga, progressive relaxation. This if done properly should help control performance anxiety based raises in heart rate.

Good luck, 570+ is a good achievement. That difference between practice and match really needs to be addressed and I doubt that heart is the cause, it might be just one of the symptoms. Get that addressed and you're well on your way, if you can shot 570 in practice there obviously no physical reason not to be able to do it in a competiton.

Where are you located? Do you have a coach?

Hi

Myself from India, 26 of age.. Frankly speaking very lazy.. use car always.. in one month rareli i walk more than 5 km(totally from home to car , car to office same wise) In one month hardly take 50 Push ups. I hav 173 cm height with 66kg wieght. I dont take tea, coffee,alchols not even tobacco.. But a pure non vegetarian.. Every day i use chicken of beef for twicw(lunch and dinner)... In 50m peep rifle prone i never done practice before match, direct matches- score will be around 578-582/600 for last 8 years( no change in score band).. I dont hav shooting accessories with me , during national competition i usually borrows from other shooters... So i thought of changing from rifle to pistol... While in starting i was having a average of 92%, so i done little dry practise ( daily 45min) for two weeks, thn started live matches. Thn i had a scores of 570+.. during practises i had a pulse rate of 90-110. When i went to match , i had high match pressure(ie mentally not worked) with a pulse rate of 140+.. I cant hold the weapon properly then.. i lost holding even in first series i fired 81/100, then controlled tension and fired average of 91% and ended.. Then I realised to reduse my pulse rate.. So please help to giv a correct exersice details to perform well in future...

A friend of mine is back in India at the moment in Bangalore.

There's good news and bad news.

The good is that at 173cm and 66kg you have a Body Mass Index (BMI) of about 22 which is a normal weight.

Now the Bad News

Your lifestyle requires some changing.

Cardio for starters.

Being as you are inactive. I suggest starting slow over a couple of weeks go for a walk (brisk) say start at 15-20 minutes and build up to an hour or so (six times per week). From there you can start a running program (start slow) I do have programs to build running endurance too.

Other alternatives are cycling, rowing and such, anything that gets your heart rate up for an extended period of time. I'm a fan of heart rate monitors, they don't let you cheat and you know the level at which you are actually working.

Another good thing for you would be Yoga, seeing as you are in India the Mecca of Yoga, that should be easy for you to find.

Next would be diet, a good healthy well balanced diet is also essential to a good performance in both your cardio workouts and your shooting.

if you have an email you can PM me and I'd be happy to assist you with anything that I can.

Well your lucky your not me. If i get my heart rate down to 140 in a match im doing ok. i average around 155. at one point i got to 201. and people exercise to do that? 140 shouldnt be a problem i shot a 97 with an 8 on the last shot when my heart rate was in the 190s.

What happens when you actually do aerobic activity? Considering the estimate formula for Max Heart rate is 220- Age. So 201 would make you 19 working at 100% of your max heart rate. That makes shooting an anaerobic activity.

( yes I know the formula is only an estimate and differs from a tested Max heart rate but usually by less than 20 bpm).

Something sounds very wrong here.

I am 54 years old, probably weigh at least 1.5 times as much as most people on here, classify lifting the TV remote as excercise, but sometimes have problems getting my shooting pulse rate UP to my favoured 92bpm.

I humbly submit that (as alluded to by an earlier poster) if your scores are dropping from 570 to 540, something more than the actual physical impact of heartrate might be at work here.

Please consider a contrarian perspective.

What are you *seeing* with respect to heartbeat in your sights?

While anxiety is indeed closely related to performance (arousal is initially a positive effect, then peaks, then becomes a negative effect) in and of itself, the factor of heartrate has not been found to be a significant independent moderator of the anxiety itself.

Rifle, of course, is entirely different. In rifle the beating of the heart has a direct and observable effect on point of aim/impact.

If you are sufficiently aroused without being anxious, you can have the heartrate of a hummingbird and shoot perfect scores in pistol.

Steve

(A great treatise on the physiology and psychology of shooting is Yur'Yev's "Competitive Shooting.")

I might be missing something here but why are you checking your heart rate when shooting?
Surely, it is one extra thing to think about, worry about if you like.
For several years I have suffered from chronic atrial fibrillation which has my heart permanently racing. Once over the shock of the diagnosis and a couple of failed kicks from a surgeon with jumper leads, I don't think about my high heartbeat and my scores aren't suffering.

Richard H wrote:What happens when you actually do aerobic activity? Considering the estimate formula for Max Heart rate is 220- Age. So 201 would make you 19 working at 100% of your max heart rate. That makes shooting an anaerobic activity.

( yes I know the formula is only an estimate and differs from a tested Max heart rate but usually by less than 20 bpm).

Actually im 21 and my max heart rate is 207. When i do aerobic activty which is most days as i am a cyclist, my heart rate sits around 175 during moderate training and around 195 to 205 in a race. given this i was amazed that i could reach over 200 while standing still. a high heart rate wont stop you shooting well but it does have an affect on your hold. if you dont beleive that go for a run flat out till your heart rate is near max then try and hold a gun still. As for why i am looking at my heart rate. I dont look at it during a match. I record it for the duration of the match then put it on the computer after I have finished. I can then compare the graph to periods of shooting to see if it has an affect on the shooting.

Muffo wrote:I record it for the duration of the match then put it on the computer after I have finished. I can then compare the graph to periods of shooting to see if it has an affect on the shooting.

Be very careful how you interpret it. It's more likely that the HR changes are as a consequence of the shooting rather than a reason for changes in the shooting. Anxiety for example will increase heart rate.

Rob.

if my heart rate went upto 80 bpm or even worse 113 bpm i think i would be ill mine beats at a steady 50/55bpm and can go as high as 60/65bpm i can get it as low as 37/40 to get it down i just breath long shallow breaths and concentrate on it and that usually does the trick,breathing fast puts it up dont know if its all the years i been shooting that allows me to do this but it helps me to shoot between the beats

Did I miss the comments on how elevated blood pressure might be as or more important, becuase of it's effects on muscle groups, vision, and body motion in general (you know; that rythmic throbbing motion that matches your pulse.)

Of course the same external and internal stimuli cause both elevated heart rates and blood pressure. It's that recognition of our increased pulse that causes concern, and it is obvious because of the associate elevation of blood pressure; all a primitive vegatative response to stress and our body preparing for fight or flight. Understanding that we are not in a true fight or flight situation (we all enjoy shooting and it can be very relaxing if we allow) and attempting to redirect our conscious thought processes we can convince our bodies to follow.

deep 10s

toznerd

Muffo wrote:

Richard H wrote:What happens when you actually do aerobic activity? Considering the estimate formula for Max Heart rate is 220- Age. So 201 would make you 19 working at 100% of your max heart rate. That makes shooting an anaerobic activity.

( yes I know the formula is only an estimate and differs from a tested Max heart rate but usually by less than 20 bpm).

Actually im 21 and my max heart rate is 207. When i do aerobic activty which is most days as i am a cyclist, my heart rate sits around 175 during moderate training and around 195 to 205 in a race. given this i was amazed that i could reach over 200 while standing still. a high heart rate wont stop you shooting well but it does have an affect on your hold. if you dont beleive that go for a run flat out till your heart rate is near max then try and hold a gun still. As for why i am looking at my heart rate. I dont look at it during a match. I record it for the duration of the match then put it on the computer after I have finished. I can then compare the graph to periods of shooting to see if it has an affect on the shooting.

I'm not doubting you so you can turn down the defenses. Basically you just stated what I just said 220-age for you equals 199 and I said that formula is an estimate and can differ by as much as 20 bpm or so.

Now that is your max heart rate, not resting heart rate, and yes if your going full out and in the anaerobic threshold area that makes sense, it makes zero sense if you're standing still holding a pistol.

So shooting for you is an anaerobic activity? Or are you going out and running full tilt before you shoot if so I suggest you don't do that.

Richard H wrote:

Muffo wrote:

Richard H wrote:What happens when you actually do aerobic activity? Considering the estimate formula for Max Heart rate is 220- Age. So 201 would make you 19 working at 100% of your max heart rate. That makes shooting an anaerobic activity.

( yes I know the formula is only an estimate and differs from a tested Max heart rate but usually by less than 20 bpm).

Actually im 21 and my max heart rate is 207. When i do aerobic activty which is most days as i am a cyclist, my heart rate sits around 175 during moderate training and around 195 to 205 in a race. given this i was amazed that i could reach over 200 while standing still. a high heart rate wont stop you shooting well but it does have an affect on your hold. if you dont beleive that go for a run flat out till your heart rate is near max then try and hold a gun still. As for why i am looking at my heart rate. I dont look at it during a match. I record it for the duration of the match then put it on the computer after I have finished. I can then compare the graph to periods of shooting to see if it has an affect on the shooting.

I'm not doubting you so you can turn down the defenses. Basically you just stated what I just said 220-age for you equals 199 and I said that formula is an estimate and can differ by as much as 20 bpm or so.

Now that is your max heart rate, not resting heart rate, and yes if your going full out and in the anaerobic threshold area that makes sense, it makes zero sense if you're standing still holding a pistol.

So shooting for you is an anaerobic activity? Or are you going out and running full tilt before you shoot if so I suggest you don't do that.

Na i was just using that as an example of hrd it is to hold it still when your heart rate is so high. I started recording my heart rate as i could feel how high it was going during matches. Im not quiet sure why it goes so high. It might just be because im new to shooting and am not use to it yet. My scores are dropping quiet bad and i need to do something about it. I shot normally about low 560s in training and 540s in competition. I even shot a 503 once

Muffo

Those heart rates many are talking about are way over the top IMO.

I just had triple bypass surgury @ 38 years old, my genetics just suck when it comes to clogged arteries and I eat Cajun food all the time lol.

But really my mother in law is a Cardio Nurse and when they do stress tests on the treadmill they are trying to get you up to around 150 beats per minute to get their readings. Even with a 90%, 95% and 100% blockage it took me over 8 minutes four incline increases and speed ups to get to me up to 155 BPM.. Now 10 days out of surgury my resting pulse is around 72 BPM I think it was around 85 resting before surgury. I hope to rehab and now having quit the smokes be able to get my resting rate to around 50-60 BPM.

I know beta blockers are banned in ISSF etc but I wonder what the rules say about medical necessity for taking them. It is just blood pressure meds same as anyone with high BP would take.

Not that I shoot those sports I shoot only Silhouette Air and Smallbore. Going to my first couple of big matches last year I can attest to the instant rise in pulse when they call Ready....... Fire.... It is all how you practice for that moment that makes or breaks you according to a world class shooter I talked to. If you only practice at home or in local matches with no pressure you will feel relaxed and shoot better than the big match. But if you can simulate that big match feel for practice you will have the mental edge that you can make the shots even if you know your a bit hyped from the moment.

Unless your a Bialtlon ski shooter I don't see why your pulse would be anywhere near 120 much less 150+ BPM.

Another thing you can look into is Bio feedback training to get your mind and body more in tune with each other. The worlds best shooters it seems can time breaking their shots between heart beats when the sights are perfect. But a lot of this shooting sports is mental training as well.

For what is worth I only went in for a checkup because of my family history I had no symptoms, pain, high blood pressure or anything else. So if your family history sucks like mine you may want to get checked no matter what your age.


Bo